DUP councillors veto “sectarian” bilingual signs- for a nationalist housing estate
Advertise
-
Books
-
…if University education were universally available and availed of, the country would collapse in one generation
The words of Brian O’Nolan, variously Brian Ó Nualláin, Myles na gCopaleen, Myles na Gopaleen and, of course, Flann O’Brien. That O’Nolan was referencing his own dissolute student days at UCD only mildly distracts from the prophetic undertone of his words: I paid no attention whatsoever to books or study and regarded lectures as a [...] read our review »
-
“Good Friday. The death of Irish Republicanism” by Anthony McIntyre: a review
This was a book that I first reviewed at the same time as “Unionism Decayed” back in 2008. Like Vance’s work, it is the author’s portrayal of a defeated political movement or ideal and as a Unionist it was instructional to read an interpretation of the immediate post-Agreement period from the other side of the fence. [...] read our review » -
A Political History of the Two Irelands competition…
It’s not often we get free things to give away to our readers, but courtesy of Palgrave Macmillan we have a nice paperback copy of Brian M Walker’s excellent history of partition of the island and how identities shifted in both the north east and the south and west: as most of the territory that [...] read our review »
-
Paul “Look at the confusion that they cause in Dublin with Bono being given as being from Ballymun when he is in fact from Glasnevin.”
This has nothing to do with bi-lingual signs. The confusion is from the fact that Ballymun Road is actually in Glasnevin, while one side of Glasnevin Ave. is actually in Ballymun (although locals would dispute the latter as it’s the dividing line between the two).
i don’t like the idea of bi-lingual street naming before areas have been moved into.
If residents wish to bi-lingually name streets they should do it (with a postal ballot, as the procedure is in Belfast)
I don’t think politicians should be allowed to ‘claim’ an area before the population settles.
my understanding is that Councils in NI have a legislative obligation to allow bi-lingual street naming (although the process to ‘allow’ it may differ). If Lisburn dismiss all requests out of hand they are breaking the law
Does anyone have any information on whether there is any widespread demand for signs in Ulster Scots, either locally or among the wider public?
I was initially friendly to the whole Ulster-Scots thing but now have the impression that it has been woefully mismanaged, not least because of the religiously sectarian aspect which was dragged in by Lord Laird and his friends.
The Irish language lobby certainly has a political face to it but has also always had a Protestant-friendly dimension.
In an increasingly globalised world every other country is intent on emphasising its own unique identity. What a pity Lisburn council appears to feel that religious sectarianism is it’s only unique feature – one which it certainly takes every opportunity to emphasise.
Lib,
There were some Ulster-Scots signs which were famously attacked by loyalists who mistook them for Irish
Sorry to get in the way of a whinge but the present position of the law is that you can’t put up bi-lingiual signs until the houses are actually built.
The law requires that a request be submitted from residents and then the views of the ‘actual’ residents sought not those “Locals hoping to move into newly constructed homes”.
Get the houses built, let the people move in then apply and if a majority of the residents support it then the bi-lingual signs will have to go ahead whatever the misgivings of councillors. (Different councils follow different procedures of how to ascertain majority support – Belfast City Council’s is the most thorough so my suggestion to Lisburn City Council would be to adopt it.)
Every language activist in the country knows this is how the law stands but to pretend ignorance of it shows a desperate attempt at mopery and to find some pathetic story to bash the DUP with.
Irish is been consciously used as a marker of difference in the north by Gaelic wannabes who self-assure themselves that they can speak the lingo, to the amusement of virtually everyone else on the island.
If it was that easy to learn the language through iconographic means alone then we’d be all at it!
No – this has nothing whatsover to do with the promotion of a much abused language. Its a ridiculous idea largely driven by ashamed monolinguals who subconsciously, don’t feel all that Irish.
In more advanced European countries street signs are repeated at intersections with even minor streets. Unilingual, I need hardly add. Dead handy for the visiting motorist.
Ireland take note. It’s about helpful orientation, stoopid, not micturating tomcats marking territory.
Nathan,
‘Its a ridiculous idea largely driven by ashamed monolinguals who subconsciously, don’t feel all that Irish. ‘
Not as ridiculous as Mr Sam Gardiner MLA who flaunts his non -Irishness in a very conscious manner as we see from this report .
‘AN Ulster Unionist MLA is investigating a “complaint” that a flower-bed in Craigavon, Co Armagh, resembles the Tricolour.
Sam Gardiner says constituents told him the floral display, a round flower bed with a white centre, yellow perimeter and green plant in the centre, was sending out the “wrong message” about the town.
The offending plant in the centre also has a white bud, green stem and yellow leaves.
“The complaint was very serious, and I am obliged to investigate on behalf of my constituents,” said Mr Gardiner.
“I have already talked to the council, at director level, about it and they have assured me the matter is being looked into.”
The display is sited at Tannaghmore Gardens, a middle-class area of Craigavon, a town which is almost evenly split between nationalists and unionists.
Local councillor Davy Jones, a leading Orangeman said the display was “flaunting Irishness”.
“Sinn Féin and the SDLP are wiping out Britishness,” he said.
No one from the council could be contacted.
A Sinn Féin spokesman described the complaint as “ludicrous and completely bizarre.”
At this rate it’s only a matter of time before the Davy Jones and Sam Gardiners of NI begin a campaign condemning grass for displaying it’s ‘Irishness’ by being green. Trees will be cut down for having green leaves and any floral display mixing green white and orange will be seen as undermining the ‘Union’
These semi epsilon morons make village idiots look like Einsteins
The Irish language, the Ulster-Scots language, English or whatever – let the local people decide.I’m not intending to contradict anybody here since they could have inside information on all this but it does seem that the Lisburn council could well have kicked to touch on this.
1/ Was a decision now really necessary?
2/ Why go through a process of putting up English only signs if the prospective residents are going to change them?
3/ Why make a decision which on the face of it will have to be reversed later?
Was it sectarian when the unionist rallies against Home Rules in the 19th century had banners reading ‘Erin go Bragh’ (Ireland Forever) alongside ‘God Save The Queen’? They had no problem recognizing they were Irish and being comfortable with the language.
Or maybe it’s only nationalists who aren’t allowed to speak Irish?
Cedarwood Road was always in Ballygall district therefore part of Glasnevin. Do you really want to give politicians the power to cause more confusion? Won’t anyone think of the children?
Occassional commentator,
‘They had no problem recognizing they were Irish and being comfortable with the language. ‘
That was in 1880 . Things have changed somewhat in Ireland since then even if you are not aware of it in NI.
Many Unionists some 60% plus IIRC from one survey have an aversion to being called Irish .
Which is why Irish Nationalists and Republicans should refer to Unionists as British Unionists as a matter of basic respect for the nationality of the latter.
Greenflag,
They are British and Irish (just as I am Irish, Ulsterish, Donegalish, and European). There is no contradiction between any of those, just as I’m still a European even though I hate the EU. I’m not going to call them British Irish unionists, so I’ll just call them unionists.
Justin – “The stupid Irish…they can’t read any language eh Skinbop?”
Well we do have a high rate of illiteracy among certain demographics – do you agree?
Wee Jeffrey – “For feck’s sake, no one tell him that Santa’s not real as well otherwise it’ll be a double-whammy for him on the same night!”
I hope you are not insinuating what I think you maybe re: Father Christmas.
Ummmm… why the need for all 3 languages, surely parity of esteem, if that’s what we were really after would suggest that Irish (the language of Ireland) and English (the language of the UK) would be sufficient. Or why not just call the roads Irish names altogether, say this road is “Bothar an Trá” or whatever and that’s the name of the road, in English or Irish or Ulster-Scots or Japan-Scots or Enrish or Iglish or whatever you want.
If they’re bilingual and if you want to read the English part, read the fucking English part, and don’t pretend you’re so fucktarded that you can’t distinguish between Irish and English hint: one of them is fucking English and the other one is fucking Irish.
#
Dan “So, are you saying signs should be Irish only in Gaeltacht areas and English only everywhere else?”
This depends. In English speaking areas, yes signs should be in English as there are few if any that don’t understand the lanuage.
In the Gaeltacht areas, if they get a lot of English speaking traffic then the signs should be bilingual.”
By the way, they are in Irish only in the Gaeltacht.
Yeah
I was trying to figure out if Keith M was suggesting signs should be English-only EVERYWHERE or not.
“Does anyone have any information on whether there is any widespread demand for signs in Ulster Scots, either locally or among the wider public?”
There are Ulster Scots street signs in Greyabbey and the sign welcoming people to Newtownards is also in Ulster Scots. I’m sure there are more but they are the main ones I am aware of. It was Ards Borough Council who decided that those signs would be in Ulster Scots rather than the local residents.
… and I’m trying to figure out if anybody read my post (nr. 7 above).
There should be more signs in English EVERYWHERE. When that simple and practical objective is achieved then let’s by all means consider bilingual signs, where needed.
The irish language is as stupid as it is amusing.
The irish constitution states that a parent has the right to determine their Childs education and that the education be provided free.
As a protestant growing up in Donegal I was forced to learn irish AGAINST my parents wishes and had i not learned irish then i would not have been provided with an education, this is a human rights violation.
Now there are signs in Donegal that display a town name in Irish and have the distance to that town displayed using the Arabic number system, now surely a true Irish speaker would want the Gaelic number system used.
“The irish language is as stupid as it is amusing.”
Post of the Century. I’m going to print it off, frame it and hang it on my wall. Really well thought out. Fair Play.
Personally I liked the bilingual signs I saw on the Isle of Man. Surely anything which lends a bit of local character is welcome – so long, of course, as it’s not illegal, immoral or fattening.
Donegal John
you do not have to take the Irish language. Your other results will be acknowledged and you can go to an uni in the UK.
Bill “you do not have to take the Irish language”.
I’m afraid he does if he’s going through the Irish school system. THe only options open to him are to cross the border and study in N.I. or leave the Irish school system for more than two years. Compulsion is often overlooked in this scenario.
The good news is the one of the two major Irish parties are now proposing to drop compulsion and with the immigrant population, it is unlikely to last for much longer.