Top of the Pops exits stage left
I was out one night with a group of very grand people from Queens, and the discussion turned to the music people listened to in their teens. I was fascinated by descriptions of Pink Floyd and Staus Quo concerts, amazing collections of LPs and all nature of sophisticated musical tastes. When the conversation turned to me, I had to sheepishly admit that growing up in Laois in the 1970′s, highlights were very much along the lines of Big Tom and the Mainliners, Hugo Duncan and Bray City Rollers. Oh yes, and that was in the Macra na Feirme Hall, to add insult to injury- The Ballroom of Lost Romance! The only connection we had to what was going on outside the world of showbands was Top of the Pops on Thursday night. It was mandated viewing, and Friday mornings were dominated with discussions of the night before. Farewell TOTP, you were an institution and served so many of us, so very well. Update Thanks to John for the picture!
‘The only connection we had to what was going on outside the world of showbands was Top of the Pops on Thursday night.’
Miss Fitz:
Yet another example of the difference between you Irish and we British.
Tell us more Harpo, thats the point…. Did you not watch TOTP, or is this a generational issue?
I take it you’re not a ‘Great Big Sea’ fan, harpo?
“I was out one night with a group of very grand people from Queens…”
Queens, NY, I take it. Very few, if any, grand people in QUB
Nice one Fanny! They were all visiting QUB, so that might explain things!
‘Tell us more Harpo, thats the point…. Did you not watch TOTP, or is this a generational issue?’
Miss Fitz:
What I meant was that while the ‘only connection’ you had to a non-showband world was a BBC show called Top Of The Pops, we British living in NI had free access to this show and much much more. As did the Irish living in Northern Ireland come to think of it.
We were living in a modern society that had free access to pop culture, and you weren’t. We were that outside world you only had a peek at on a Thursday night.
I did watch TOTP. I was an avid viewer.
On the generational theme, tell me this. What did your elders think of TOTP, or you watching it? Was it dismissed as modernist British filth and depravity? Intended to pollute the minds of Irish youth? Did the showband police send out units to stop Irish youth from watching Bowie, Queen, Slade, Mud, and Wizzard? Were you sent off to Hucklebuck Boot Camp if you were discovered watching TOTP?
‘I take it you’re not a ‘Great Big Sea’ fan, harpo?’
cladycowboy:
No, not at all.
I’m more of a Metallica fan myself.
Do you remember the days of waiting to see if they would have AC/DC, Motorhead, or Thin Lizzy on TOTP, in addition to all of the pop acts? Heavier rock singles rarely made it to the top 10, and it was a treat if they included such a band on the basis of their latest single being a chart new entry.
‘Do you remember the days of waiting to see if they would have AC/DC, Motorhead, or Thin Lizzy on TOTP, in addition to all of the pop acts? Heavier rock singles rarely made it to the top 10, and it was a treat if they included such a band on the basis of their latest single being a chart new entry.’
Just a bit before my time! I’d have the same experience with Nirvana etc. Still, even then TOTP was about as close to being on the music pulse as a Laois dancehall of the 70′s.
Was given a Great Big Sea CD by Canadians i met travelling there, i thought it was excellent!
But seriously, Miss Fitz, I followed TOTP from the first note of the sig tune of the first show, right up until I well … grew too old to “appreciate” house and rap. (An aside, how come black people gave us rock ‘n’ roll and black people fucked it up again with inane rap?)
I know what you mean about the ballrooms. There was an odd situation in Ireland during the showband era. Great music was being made in the cities but it was largely underground. We had a guy named Pat Egan who kept the flame of rock burning with one page per week in Spotlight, a mag devoted almost entirely to showbands.
The showbands kept the rest of Ireland from not discovering until much later what real music was all about. The showbands were copyists who, with only a few exceptions, had nothing original to offer. They had some good horn players though.
Then a decade or two later, came U2 and the others, and all Ireland could find out how talented our boys and girls has been all along. Think of how good we’d be now if our “beat groups” had had a better deal way back then.
Harpo
“What I meant was that while the ‘only connection’ you had to a non-showband world was a BBC show called Top Of The Pops, we British living in NI had free access to this show and much much more. As did the Irish living in Northern Ireland come to think of it.”
That’s an awful lot of store you’re putting by being able to watch British television. But wait, you’re just warming up….
“We were living in a modern society that had free access to pop culture, and you weren’t….”
This is Belfast in the 70s you’re talking about, right? In fairness, I don’t think you’re living on the same planet as the rest of us, so who am I to say whether you were living in a modern society or not…..?
But wait: here comes the killer line!
“We were that outside world you only had a peek at on a Thursday night.”
Ah how the denizens of Laois must have dreamed of the futuristic world of 1970s Belfast!
“If you will it, it is no dream,” wrote Theodore Herzl.
I think you’ve slightly misinterpreted what he meant by that Harpo. He meant that all things are possible – he didn’t mean that simply saying, or even believing that things are/were so, makes them so.
Though fair dues: funniest post EVER on Slugger!
“On the generational theme, tell me this. What did your elders think of TOTP, or you watching it? Was it dismissed as modernist British filth and depravity? Intended to pollute the minds of Irish youth?”
Sweet mothering Jesus….
“Do you remember the days of waiting to see if they would have AC/DC, Motorhead, or Thin Lizzy on TOTP” –
Goodness gracious Harpo, and you a loyal british subject and all – especially as AC/DC were nothing but the descendants of common criminals and Thin Lizzy were bringing you music that was made where people didn’t live in a modern society and had no free access to pop culture. Papist filth no doubt intended to pollute the minds of British youth.
I wonder if ye’d catch yerself on – its only rock n’roll (and Peters and Lee).
The defining TOTP moment though has to be the night The Stone Roses and The Happy Mondays were both on, signalling the end of Thatcher, the rise of dance culture and the return of real music to our radios. Hows about that then!!
What next? A thread about the demise of Spangles and Spacehoppers?
Top of the Pops is shite, and was always shite. Sure, there was a time when watched it cos it happened to be the only shite available, but it was still shite.
I mean Jimmy unprintable allegations Fuckin Saville ferfuxsake???
Tafkabo
If you tell me what spangles and spacehopperes are, I’ll gladly devote one of MY threads to it.
Ach now TAFKABO, thats not always been the case.
Yes there was a lot of cack at times, but man, the Roses AND the Happy Mondays on the one show!!! – indeed the only show where you had any kind of access to popular modern music that wasn’t buried in the midnight hours on BBC2 (à la Whistle Test), or in the saturday morning kiddies selection (the chart show – which was shite too).
TAFKABO
You wash your mouth out.
I’m just putting the last wee stitches in a black armband
A spangle is a sweet.
A spacehopper (and I had one) was a mode of transport, comprising a round pneumatic blown-up plastic thing that you sat on with two handles you held onto as you literally moved forward by bouncing.
slug
that is open to misinterpretation
lol @ Bertie… genius
Top of the Pops? I suppose it has been an institution, and served its generation well. The internet has taken over now, though; and there are loads of dedicated digital channels for every preferred genre. While the excitement in looking forward to the weekly show can never be replaced, demand and supply dictates. 100%. Its time has come. I, for one, won’t shed a tear.
circles,
Roses and Mondays on the same program? when was that? I stopped watching TOTP when I went to college (was never in front of a TV at 7:30 anymore).
Despite the tonnes of cack TOTP had on (Bucks Fizz always sticks in my mind) and their inability to play Frankie Goes to Hollywood there were many memorable moments. The one that stands out for me is the time Vanessa Paradiso played that awful song “Joe le Taxi”. During one of the instrumentals she did a 180 turn and was waggling her ass at the audience and got a very enthusiastic response that quite obviously discommoded her and she rapdily turned around again. Laugh! I tell ye!
Bucks Fizz Rule OK
‘That’s an awful lot of store you’re putting by being able to watch British television.’
Billy:
Not me. That’s what Miss Fitz said – that TOTP was her ‘only connection’ to the non-showband world. I thought that was a bit over-dramatic, but then I didn’t live in the ROI, so I’ll take her word for it.
‘Ah how the denizens of Laois must have dreamed of the futuristic world of 1970s Belfast!’
Well, I just repeated what she said. She didn’t, and I didn’t, say anything about it being futuristic, but from what she says, NI didn’t suffer from showband domination to the same degree as the ROI.
‘I think you’ve slightly misinterpreted what he meant by that Harpo.’
I didn’t make any comment on what that dude said, since it wasn’t quoted anywhere on this thread. As for the content of what he said, she was the one who said that TOTP was her only connection to the outside world.
‘Though fair dues: funniest post EVER on Slugger!
Thank you. Glad to see you took it as humour. I was playing on the image we had of ‘the Free State’ as we grew up. Generations of kids being raised by strict Catholics, being beaten at school by nuns and Christian brothers, living repressed lives. Having to go to showband dances. But they saw the fruits of freedom through glimpses of things like TOTP. Miss Fitz just confirmed it all.
‘Sweet mothering Jesus….’
Gotcha!
‘Top of the Pops is shite, and was always shite. Sure, there was a time when watched it cos it happened to be the only shite available, but it was still shite.’
TAFKABO:
Much of it was, but look at Miss Fitz’s thread opener. It was forbidden fruit glimpsed by the repressed youth of the ROI. Sure we British had the freedom to enjoy such pop culture or not, and dismiss it as crap if we thought it was, but look at her attitude. It was a beacon of hope to the youth of the ROI. They saw that the British had the freedom to not only put such shite on TV, but to explore such shite. Meanwhile they were living under the oppression of showband culture.
It’s much like the East Germans before the wall came down. They longed for the freedoms of West Germany, even though such freedoms were often wasted on stupid pop culture.
You may dismiss TOTP on the basis that Demis Roussos and Paper Lace were the usual fare on display, but think of an Irish youngster brainwashed on showband music. That was freedom baby!
harpo
“NI didn’t suffer from showband domination to the same degree as the ROI”
Obviously you didn’t get around much in Northern Ireland in the 1970′s!
Whats wrong with showbands? Live guitars, spangly suits, underage drinking in the back of the hall, and a serious snog before heading back home in the grassy night.
I’ve never forgiven the Irish for not giving Horslips their due.
I think that comparing County Laois and Belfast is quite unfair, and certainly not like for like. Having said that, I wrote an article in 1980 for the Irish Times, describing my first trip to Belfast. It is probably really interesting in light of this discussion, and if I have a chance over the weekend, I’ll copy it on to my Blogspot thingie.
There really was a chasm of difference back then, although not as repressed as Harpo would have us believe.
I was never a ‘trendy’ person, and many of my cohorts were into music outside of the Macra-style events. (Trying not to use words like ‘hop’, ‘do’ and ‘social’
Mind you, it was still very much a commnuity focal point, and all the action (in all senses) took place there. Harpo, maybe they were just more innocent times, in some ways
I understood Tom and the mainliners got some serious alternative credibility… if only for one night.
One of my mates was telling me how Tom and the boys were touring round 60′s America and did an outdoor gig – about 20,000 people turned up , thinking they were some hippie band, and that the “mainlining” in question involved heavy introvenous drug use.
Probably apocraphyl but I did laugh
Miss Fitz:
You should have been in Cork in 1967!
Pink Floyd concerts in 1967:
April 7 1967 Floral Hall, Belfast, Northern Ireland
September 15 1967 Starlight Ballroom, Belfast, Northern Ireland
September 16 1967 Flamingo, Ballymena, Northern Ireland
September 17 1967 Arcadia, Cork, Ireland
Jimi Hendrix Experience Tour 1967:
Jimi Hendrix — 40 min
The Move — 30 min
Pink Floyd — 17 min
Amen Corner — 15 min
The Nice — 12 min
Eire Apparent — 8 min
Outer Limits — 8 min
November 28 1967 Belfast, Northern Ireland
aquifer
“Whats wrong with showbands? Live guitars, spangly suits, underage drinking in the back of the hall, and a serious snog before heading back home in the grassy night. ”
There is something familiar about you
‘Harpo, maybe they were just more innocent times, in some ways’
Miss Fitz:
Maybe that was the case in Laois, but in the UK, we were living life to the full. Pink Floyd in Ballymena for example.
Jimi Hendrix was presented with a birthday cake after that show in Belfast, but he was a little bit out of it, so to speak, and more interested in what he was smoking.
‘There is something familiar about you
’
bertie:
Is that a claim that you two snogged?
Harpo
The Rolling Stones also came to the Flamingo Ballroom, Ballymena. Pink Floyd too, eh.
We British had all the advantages.
Rolling Stones British Dates – 1964
Spa Royal Hall, Bridlington, Yorkshire
Queens Hall, Leeds (2 shows)
“Top Of The Pops”, BBC TV recordings, Manchester [aired July 16]
“Teen And Twentry Disc Club”, Radio Luxembourg recordings, IBC Studios, London
“The Joe Loss Show”, BBC radio, London
Beat City Club, London
Hippodrome, Brighton, Sussex (2 shows)
Andrew Oldham Orchestra session, Regent Sound Studios, London
“Top Gear”, BBC radio show, London
“Ready, Steady, Go!”, AR TV show, London
Empress Ballroom, Blackpool
Imperial Ballroom, Nelson, Lancashire
De Montford Hall, Leicester (2 shows)
“Thank Your Lucky Stars,” (a.k.a. “Lucky Stars Summer Spin”), ABC TV recordings, Teddington, Middlesex [aired Aug. 8]
Ulster Hall, Belfast, Northern Ireland
Flamingo Ballroom, Ballymena, Northern Ireland
TAF:
I’ve never forgiven the Irish for not giving Horslips their due.
Posted by TAFKABO on Jul 27, 2006 @ 10:56 PM
Im starting to like you more and more. The horslips were before their time, excellent. I first heard them when I was very young. (I’m 38)
Harpo:
Honestly, how deprived was the ROI from pop culture back in Miss Fitzs’ time? What has NI got to offer pop culture compared to what the ROI nurtured?
In terms of music, think….
ROI – U2, Corrs, Cranberries, Thin Lizzy, Rory Gallagher, In Tua Nua, Clannad, Pogues, Sinead O’Conner, Hothouse Flowers, Boomtown Rats, Aslan.
NI – Van Morrison (has lived in SF over 30 years), SLF, Undertones.
In terms of Literature…..fill in the blanks man.
More precisely, get a grip. There were no authoritarian restrictions on music or art in the ROI back in Miss Fits time or any other time. People from Laois obviously just liked that kind of showband shite I guess.
What are you basing your opinion on? Was this something your parents instilled in you, or was this something your community instilled in you? Maybe this is just your own personal misconception?
Can you agree that not every aspect of human nature in Ireland is not based on Us’ins and Them’ins? That is the real insight (understanding) in this discussion.
I’m Rockin Out to “Speed the Plough” right now. Excellent stuff. Theme of the song applies equally to some young lad in Ballymena as opposed to some lad somewhere in Laois.
Harpo, our differences are only superficial.
The girl I love waits for me now, she’s standing by the well, she may have to wait until it’s dry, cause I am off to hell.
Speed the plough, I’ll wait no more for fire from God, listen to me now, speed the plough, speed the plough.
[Solo......]
I counted lines on her pretty face from the tears she cried.
Her cheeks were bleached as white as snow as she kissed me goodbye.
We heard their arms, we could not see, I knew our time had come.
I turned my back on prison farm and then began to run.
Speed the plough, Ill wait no more for fire from God, listen to me now, speed the plough, speed the plough.
[Rock out dual solo....]
Repeat…..various theme and solo.
Sans plane pour moi
Sans plane pour moi moi moi moi moi moi
oooooooUoooooooOooooooo
Sans plane pour moi
Repeat till fade
spacehoppers are still going strong. in fact, outside all our local supermarkets, the ten or more car parking places, nearest the doors are marked out for folk using spacehoppers
only thing is them disabled wans always take the spaces
TOTP was all the mainstream there was in the 70′s, mind you, it made a big difference when punk flung itself onto the stage. From Peters and Lee, Linsey de Paul and the Osmonds, we leapt to the Buzzcocks, the Jags, the Skids, Stranglers . . . Raw rock that anyone could play, and everyone tried to.
Still remember the black and white cartoons behind the music on Whistle Test in the pre-video age. There were times, however, when Whisperin’ Bob was just too whispery.
McGrath – I’m told that Therapy, Ash and Snow Patrol should be added to your list.
eh? what’s this about?
music ended when Hugh Cornwell left the Stranglers folks!
Dont forget David Holmes to the list and in the interest of balance……..our own saccarine champion Daniel”spawn of the devil” O Donnell
The BBC and ITV signals broadcast well into the Republic and covered 7 or 8 counties of the “ROI” – maybe this was for the benefit of the lost “Lost Tribe of Israel” people left behind after partition but the natives tuned into Match of The Day and TOTP in equal measure.
Now if we could only get a decent TG4 signal in these counties it would be a bonus…
piebald
Forget TOTP,
thanks to a rather large arial we managed to join the elite 6 channel group, leading to a crush at the front door of a Saturday from Doctor Who afficionados.
TOTP was on Network 2.
Christy Moore – “Natives”
“For all of our languages we can’t communicate
For all of our native tongues we’re all natives here
Sons of their fathers’ dream the same dream
The sound of forbidden words becomes a scream
Voices in anger, victims of history
Plundered and set aside, grow fat on swallowed pride
With promises of paradise and gifts of beads and knives
Missionaries and pioneers are soldiers in disguise
Saviours and Conquerers, they make us wait
Like fishers of men they wave their truth like bait
But with the touch of a stranger’s hand innocence turns to shame
The spirit that dwelt within now sleeps out in the rain
For all of our languages we can’t communicate,
For all of our native tongues, we’re all natives here
The scars of the past are slow to disappear
The cries of the dead are always in our ears
And only the very safe can talk about wrong and right
Of those who are forced to choose, some will choose to fight”
Who could sum it up better?
It’s interesting that the Ballroom of Lost Romance is mentioned with such disdain. Presumably Miss Fitz doesn’t realise that this humble institution has gone on to have far more of an effect on music in Ireland than she might have realised. Since 2002, The Ballroom of Romance, an independent music club night organised by Dublin-based band The Holy Ghost Fathers and named after the midlands dance venue, has hosted over fifty nights and nearly two hundred bands, and has been a staple of Dublin live music of the (mostly) ‘not crap’ variety.
Some linkage:
http://www.holyghostfathers.com/
http://www.ballroomofromance.com/
Or do a search on the ever-active Thumped messageboard for ‘Ballroom’:
http://www.thumped.com/bbs/
While on the subject of music, there’s a point I want to make.
I have a certain Unionist friend who I debate with very often. NI politics is one of the staple subjects. When I suggest that he is as Irish as I am, he usually responds by saying that he feels no connection with Irish culture. when I enquire as to the specifics of this assertion, he usually comments on the “fiddly-dee” music, etc. I point out to him (something he always acknowledges, but never learns from) that English folk music is very similar to Irish trad music. Folk music from Scotland, likewise. One need only look at current English Folk heroine “Kate Rusby” to understand my point. Indeed, one of my favourite singers (Sandy Denny) and her band The Fairport Convention (which also included the legendary Richard Thompson, possibly the UK’s most talented and underrated popular musician of recent memory) are from England. When I first played it to my Unionist friend, he mentioned the point that he had no affinity with traditional Irish culture. I had to laugh. Crying was probably more appropriate. There is a cultural continuity in these two islands, one that is easily obscured by the exaggeration of small cultural differences. This is done to create political capital, but only results in ignorance. We’d do well to consider this story, and keep it in mind – if only as a metaphor…
Hi Resolve,
That great song Natives is a Paul Doran song. I only found this out last week whilst looking for the lyrics online.
Couldn’t find out anything more about Paul Doran except for a little bit here
http://www.getagig.ie/modules/AMS/article.php?storyid=137
Piebald…
Many thanks. I didn’t know that, nor have I even heard of Paul Doran… until now, that is. Like I said, thank you. One of THe best songs. He wrote “The Holy Ground” too, i see. Excellent. Your link says he has been praised by the likes of Bono and Jackson Browne. IMO, Jackson Browne is one of the best lyricists in all of modern popular music. Praise from the likes of him is testament to Doran’s reputation. I look into him further. C ya
‘I point out to him (something he always acknowledges, but never learns from) that English folk music is very similar to Irish trad music. Folk music from Scotland, likewise.’
Resolve:
And so what? I hate folk music.
It’s not part of my culture. Nor that guy’s either. I don’t feel any connctiion to trad Irish folk music because I’m not interested in folk music at all.
Culture is whatever people are interested in. You can’t define culture for people and say ‘that is your culture’. But many try to, saying that English culture is for example Morris dancing and English folk music.