Jim:

Exactly. They are neutral observers. They can;t stop anything.

So what fookin sense is there in leaving them out in the middle of a shooting war? They will only be used in such a circumstance.

We don’t need UN neutral observers to tell us that Hezbollah and the Israelis are shooting at each other. So why are they left out there, exposed?

circles:

I’m not justifying anything. But it seems pretty bleeding obvious that if Hezbollah have built a rocket fire point at the base of your apartment building that it doesn’t make much sense to stay there if the Israelis are firing at Hezbollah targets.

It doesn’t serve them right for living there, but if they adopt your attitude and stay when all hell is descending on Hezbollah targets then what can you do?

‘Its OK to kill civilians if their neighbours might be attacking you.’

I didn’t say that – those are your words. But if you are in a battle zone and your neighbours are Hezbollah – one of the sets of combatants involved – then it makes sense to get out of there if they are engaged in a battle.

‘Stretching this point only very slightly and you can justify all the sectarian murders of the troubles Harpo’

I personally don’t but many Irish Republicans have done this for decades, and still do. Bomb the Shankill fish shop? The justification comes from IRs that there were supposedly UFF guys meeting close by, so what can you expect?

In the NI case of course, the likes of the PIRA did not give proper warnings before attacking in civilian areas. They tended to deliver the weapon and then try to warn civilians. IR sympathizers will claim that the PIRA met the rules of war regarding bombardments, but they didn’t. Their attacks weren’t really bombardments anyway, and many of them weren’t even aimed at military targets anyway. In contrast the Israelis have given lots of warnings about what they were doing.

2. Or, are you telling us that the bombing of the UN outpost was because the IDF targeted that outpost after receiving fire from it?’

Jim:

1. The positions are not being shared. The quote says ‘fired from the vicinity of four UN positions’. Do you know what vicinity means? Hezbollah having been doing this on a regular basis. The UN folks aren’t there to stop anybody, they are there to watch. The UN folks are tucked up in their little bunkers or posts, but aren’t going to do anything to anyone who comes close to them. Thus Hezbollah move close to UN posts and fire at the Israelis, knowing that if the Israelis fire back, there is a fair chance that the UN posts will be hit. That’s how the 4 UN guys ended up dead. The Israelis weren’t shooting at the UN post for fun. It was because there were Hezbollah units close to the UN post. Those 4 UN guys were reporting that this was what was happening.

2. Same explanation. There were Hezbollah units close to that UN post, so when the Israelis shot back at the Hezbollah units, there was a fair chance that the UN post would be hit. As Hezbollah hoped.

Now given that the UN guys recognized all of this, one has to ask why those UN guys were left out there. Why didn’t they demand to be allowed to leave? They weren’t capable of stopping anything, so of what use were they there? They were in extreme danger.

I have never suggested the Republic re-join the U.K., what I suggest (in the longterm fiture) is a federal republic of the isles. Until such time as nonsense such as a “united Ireland” (outside the U.K.) is finally accepted as never going to happen, it is not an idea that is likely to get widespead discussion.

MarkoBrando:

Irish Republicans have been doing it for generations. Ask them.

Additionally, as I believe you are on record as desiring the Irish Republic to come back into an united kingdom (open to correction) you probably aren’t in a position to criticise people for having views “out of touch with the real world” anyway!

In your opinion should the greens quite rightly be targetted by the Israeli’s? or Loyalists for that matter?

Proving once again how out of touch with the real world, the tree huggiung anti-everything mob really are.

The fact that the Greens can’t even come near to getting an MLA elected let alone a MP, shows that the public sees them for the bandwagon hopping non-entities that they really are.

Dr John Barry and Kelly Andrews, co-leaders of the Green Party in Northern Ireland said: “After many years of calling on local political parties to use their influence to end terrorism in Northern Ireland, we have the spectacle of Tony Blair and his Ministers tacitly endorsing Israel’s state terror response to Hezbollah’s rocket attacks. “The Greens deplore all terrorist attacks and have consistently supported a radical attempt to address the underlying causes of conflict in the Middle East, notably the Palestine question.

“However, we are appalled by the spectacle of the British Labour Party’s failure to name Israeli state’s disproportionate and counterproductive response, which amounts to a form of state terror.

“We call on all the main parties in Northern Ireland (SDLP, Sinn Fein, Ulster Unionists and the DUP) to cancel their engagements with British Labour Ministers for one week, in protest at their hyprocrisy. After years of calling on local parties to use their influence to end terror, the Ministers in Tony Blair’s Government have tacitly endorsed an unrelenting and criminal assault on the fragile State of Lebanon and its war weary people.

“We are calling for a one week boycott up until 8 August 2006, the date of an anti-war rally at Belfast City Hall.”

ENDS

Obviously the British have thier own agenda – ie if Israel were to join, then the British Monarchy could claim to be the legitimate King or Queen of Israel, insted of just ‘Thy People Israel’. Interesting enough, again at the same time, Prince Charles was being touted on Israeli national tv as a Davidic Heir.

Also, in the 1970s Charlie boy put forward a request to the EU to be the Monarch of Europe, at the time they laughed at him, but now the tides appear to be turning, and he now has all but the backing of the European Council of Princes. So, I guess whether we like it or not, we’re going to have an English bastard forced on us as our ‘Monarch.’

Weekend News Today

Source: MED

Mon Aug 25 , 1997 —

Israel is actively considering joining the British Commonwealth, following an “unofficial approach” to its ambassador in London from the secretary-general of the 53-member organization.

The approach was made earlier this month in a meeting between Ambassador Moshe Raviv and the Commonwealth’s secretary-general, Chief Emeka Anyaoku. The move is being seen as especially significant at a time when Israeli ties with the European Union and other international bodies have been strained over the stalled Middle East peace process. A spokesman for the Commonwealth confirmed that a meeting had taken place between Chief Anyaoku and Mr Raviv, but declined to provide further details.

The approach came in the wake of a visit to London earlier this month by Yasser Arafat, during which the Palestinian Authority chief asked Commonwealth officials whether a future Palestinian state could have associate membership of the organization.

This is a British based news site which is generally sympathetic to Hamas.

The Palestinian Authority catalogue the daily incursions and brutalities of the IDF in the Occupied Territories.

The Hezbollah associated al manar tv is still on line.

The Iranian regime’s take on conflict without prior Israeli interpretation is available on iribnews.

Their lead yesterday was opinion survey finding that 87% of Lebanese support Hezbollah’s resistance. Justification for those of use who think that indiscriminate bombing of civilian populations does not win the ‘battle for hearts and minds’?

By the way thanks for allowing me to post the ‘All glory to the national resistance movements of Hezbollah and Hamas’ line at the end of my posts on Lebanon on an earlier thread. It was an inept attempt to mimic the statements of MP’s George Galloway and Jeremy Corbyn made at the 30,000 strong march for Lebanon in London last Saturday interestingly not picked up by the press. Galloway has since repeated something similar in writing.

This is a different form of words from mine but in relation to Hezbollah at least I think conveys the same idea. Stupid anti-terror laws restricting freedom of speech deserve to be challenged.

The ‘Nazi loving Irgun’ jibe I used was meant as a counter balance to one of your correspondents use of the meaningless term ‘Islamofascist’ at every opportunity.

The sources for it are Leni Brenner and Tony Cliff
‘Now Israel is collaborating with the Phalangists in Lebanon, an openly fascist organisation. I’m not surprised. I remember the 1930s when Begin’s (former Israeli prime minister) organisation, the Irgun, used the Hitler salute and wore the brown shirts.’
It was not meant to suggest that all Zionists are fascists but in my view some most definitely are.

any evidence for this commonwealth claim?

Here’s the REAL cost of the war (http://www.uruknet.info/?p=24885) and it’s only going to get worse, not just in terms of ‘colateral damage’ but also in intensity. You can be rest assured that if America and Britain get they’re way Iran and Syria will be dragged into the conflict.

PS how many of you know that Britain has offered the State of Israel a place in the Commonwealth?? An offer Israel is now seriously considering. SO if they do accept – it wont be long before you Brits will be over there fighting another BS war.

And let the IDF and their DFF cronies swan around for years, too. What’s that, no enthusiasm for the same strong action against the IDF then?

I’d guess the Irish Army and Government both have a better appraisal of the situation than you have, Keith. Shocking, I know.