The 242nd Orange Hall burning since 1989 took place last night in Lurgan. This is the third arson attack on the hall in recent years. The culprits had to smash through the roof as windows were bricked up after previous attacks. It has received cross-community condemnation.
Coming up to the Halloween holiday, some people might be frightened of the idea of Voices from the Grave – but for others, the chance to hear an oral history of the Troubles from the mouths of two (in)famous protagonists, PUP leader and former UVF member David Ervine, and Brendan “The Dark” Hughes, is not [...] read our review »
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Ok someone on here said the OO and GAA were similar types of organisations, in that they are sectarian?
Could the person who made this claim please explain the rationale behind that thought? I can not for the life of me see the similarities.
They’re both all-Ireland, cross-border institutions. Both could be described as tribal and largely exclusive. Both have halls acattered throughout the country. Both have a social aspect to their respective organisations.
Will that do?
)
but only one demands to march through areas were they are not welcome, due to their sectarian views & paramilitary bands and emblems.
Dec
Still waiting for the threads about public urination I am supposed to have put up.
“No the spin you put upon it entitling your thread Terrorist Commeration and the GAA”
Please note the ‘and’ I didn’t say ‘by’. A GAA supplier and players/figures were involved in the story.
The Irish News thought the story warranted an offical response from the GAA so my spin was no different.
“i think you’ll find its called lip-service.”
No just correcting a false claim made by your self that I’d never covered any.
“Ever tried?”
I thought he would have covered the pensioner story before me.
Still trying to blow hot and hold with the same breath, I see…
Posted byDread Cthulhu on Jul 15, 2006 @ 04:48 PM
Dread, Do you come here to debate the issues or take issue with me personaly?
If you’re going to insist on making my every utterance a pretext for some handbagging swinging, at least do it in an email and spare everyone else the tedium of a little bitchfest between ourselves
I welcome those who have condemned the attack, but guess what?
Human nature being what it is, I still think all those who haven’t condenmed, or actualy offer encouragement to this type of attack still deserve commenting on. Take of your blinkers and stop looking at every thread and starting from the premise that you need to find the sectarian unionist double standards before you say anything.
‘They’re both all-Ireland, cross-border institutions. Both could be described as tribal and largely exclusive. Both have halls acattered throughout the country. Both have a social aspect to their respective organisations.
Will that do?
) ‘
Well, I suppose some of that is true! Is that where there similarities end or is some other more sinister similarity being hinted at?
I don’t think the GAA can any longer be described as exclusive as that was largely taken care of last year, correct? And I have yet to see a GAA team / group attempting to batter its way up any road!
To return to the matter of the GAA shirt/hunger strike issue ( Fairdeal’s post I think), I am not sure commemorating the hunger strikers ( or King Billy for that matter) is what is sectarian about these things, but the manner in which they are commemorated. For instance, if the well discussed GAA/Hunger strike shirt was flaunted in an area where others object to it, or someone was forced to wear it, that would be sectarianism. No?
TAFKABO: “Dread, Do you come here to debate the issues or take issue with me personaly? ”
If denouncements are the threshold you set for adequate response for Unionists, should not that be the same threshold for the response from Nationalists?
I just find it interesting you want more from Nationalists than Unionism is willing to put forth under similar circumstances.
For the record, its not personal. You’re just the one with the most convenient backtrail of posts to make the point.
I just find it interesting you want more from Nationalists than Unionism is willing to put forth under similar circumstances.
A bizzare statement, care to eleborate?
If you don’t get it by now, TAFKABO, no amount of my explaining it is going to help you. prolly achieve quite the opposite, send you back into your prosecution complex and siege mentality.
Seems like an excuse to me mo chara.I just called yer bluff.
To the several posters that pointed out the obvious, well done for refusing to be beguiled. To those that do not realise that it is an abnormal society that does not recognise the OO for what it is shame on you.
Maura.
“We can not seriously be enraged at the burning of Catholic Churches and Schools on the one hand, and remain mute when it is done in the other direction.
Posted by maura on Jul 15, 2006 @ 03:51 PM
This post particularly galled, do not deceive yourself that sectarian gang-huts are the equivelant of places of learning or God forbid churches. These gang-huts have been used to facilitate and project hatred for many a year. Often they have been used in the first instance for this hatred.
I hope you take this criticism in the spirit it is given, in no way can the comparison you make be valid. Think about your proper defence of GAA halls above, those who defend this hatred seek moral equivalence at all points, none is valid. Take Gonzo’s first post for an example of this;
“Dear all,
Mr Deal is entitled to publish what he likes here. The fact that this is the 242nd hall to be burnt since 1989 is news to me and wasn’t in the BBC story.
It is an entirely valid post, and the reaction to it has revealed the nationalist equivalent of the ‘Fuck MickyBo’ mentality, IMHO.
Posted by Gonzo on Jul 15, 2006 @ 03:09 PM”
This is as classic an example of dis-association as you will find. The mocking of a dead young man/child, compared to the damage to a hall used by an intolerant organisation. Honestly need any more be said?
While deploring this, the organisation should not be surprised it is so loathed in the Catholic community when it bans members from marrying Catholics and its rules contain anti-Catholic language such as the “fatal errors” of Catholicism, not to mention the ghosts of Drumcrees’ past. And they celebrate Protestant victories over Catholics. That is especially offensive but wouldn’t be so bad if they kept to areas that the local community welcomed that sort of thing. Having 1690 rammed down your throat is very provocative.
Having said that, I accept that Unionism is entitled to commemorate its history. However they should be less in your face about it and remove sectarian rules that prevent members marrying Catholics (why?). There are many mixed religion married couples in the South and the OO looks very anachronistic in clinging onto this relic of the 18th century.
Prince: ‘This post particularly galled, do not deceive yourself that sectarian gang-huts are the equivelant of places of learning or God forbid churches. These gang-huts have been used to facilitate and project hatred for many a year. Often they have been used in the first instance for this hatred. ‘
I agree wholeheartedly Prince, but yet, I see little point in sinking to the bottom of the barrel with these people. As Republicans we must take the high ground, and condemning these attacks is the right thing to do.
( Sorry about the galling:-)I seriously have a problem expressing myself, but hope to improve here as time passes.)
TAKFABO: “Seems like an excuse to me mo chara.I just called yer bluff. ”
No, Stu, I just hate repeating myself.
But, if I must spell it out, I will…
1. A general comment is made on a topic
2. TAFKABO immediately personalizes comment and become confrontation
3. Time is wasted talking TAFKABO down off the roof
4. TAFKABO gives some lame excuse on how was he to know that it was not a personal slight.
Likewise, you’re on this list howling that not every Catholic, Nationalist and Republican (terms you tend to get lazy and use interchangably, btw — something you get upset about when its Protestant, Unionist and Loyalist in the discussion), yet belittle the those who point out Unionism’s flaw of a similar nature.
You are quick to say things didn’t happen, despite news stories and photographs, yet get very upset when someone doubts your veracity on a topic. You want deeds and changes from Republicans (don’t we all) but seem to be of the opinion that words are sufficient out of Unionists. You lump all of Nationalism in one pot, yet are quick to disassociate Loyalism from Unionism, despite one being the underhand for the other.
Shall I go on?
For the record, you’ll do well to remember, should we play poker — I never cheat and I rarely bluff.
The heading states – “242 Orange Halls burnt down and counting”. Who’s counting? Ha!
Dread.
Stuff and nonsense, and more proof, if it were need, that you take these boards and my comments far too personally. If you want to email me with any examples, as opposed to simply expanding upon allegations, then feel free to do so.
Maura.
Thank you for not taking offence, I have only been on slugger myself these past few months, in that time I have learned how to type almost as fast as my thought processes(lie). A new wind is always welcome.
I personally believe that SF are wrong on this one, not about condeming, but about calling it a sectarian attack. No normal society would tolerate such an organisation in it’s present form, we should not either.
Dread.
And I thought you liked playing with TAF so much;¬)
Fair Deal
Just wondering, is anyone keeping a list of the halls burned down, or is the information available anywhere? I would be interested in breaking it down in terms of areas, time of year and arrests. Perhaps this has been done?
“Honestly need any more be said?”
No, because you’re clearly of the opinion that anti-Orange violent sectarianism is excusable, while we both agree that sectarian mockery of a murder victim is not.
There’s a word that perfectly describes this position, but Mick has censored it.
Missfitz
AFAIK there is a list but I don’t think the analysis you describe has been done. I’ll endeavour to check. I don’t think the number of arrests have been collated although from anecdote it wouldn’t be a particularly long list.
BG.
Were you the gonzo who made the mickey Bo comment?
““Dear all,
Mr Deal is entitled to publish what he likes here. The fact that this is the 242nd hall to be burnt since 1989 is news to me and wasn’t in the BBC story.
It is an entirely valid post, and the reaction to it has revealed the nationalist equivalent of the ‘Fuck MickyBo’ mentality, IMHO.
Posted by Gonzo on Jul 15, 2006 @ 03:09 PM”
If so, then I can’t take you seriously. Also if you are comparing the mocking of a sectarian murder by sectarian motivated people, to the damaging of a sectarian gang-hut, then I really can’t take you seriously.
How is being anti-orange sectarian? Are Prods who are anti-Orange sectarian? please explain.
FD
Cheers
I know it seems we’re all at it, but I am just finishing a solicited article on the OO and parades. I am endeavouring to provide as big and balanced a picture as possible, and I think that this information is part of the story.
The fact there are no/few arrests is as telling as anything else, and worth including.
missfitz
I was talking to a man who knows. The clear up rate of the attacks is 2% roughly 5 out of the 242 attacks. I should get my hands on the full list very soon.
Thanks FD. Will keep an eye out for it, will make a useful addition.