A peaceful parade and a peaceful protest
I have just returned from the annual Whiterock parade. Both the parade and protest went off without a hitch (as far as I could see). I must admit that today made me genuinely hopeful. I don’t care about “They only did it because….” or “But what about…” . Both sides delivered. After just missing total success at the Tour of the North and a total success at the Whiterock two good precedents have been set. I can remember debating on here with many who said that the democratic standard of a peaceful parade with opponents protesting peacefully was something that would be very difficult/impossible to achieve. Today it was achieved and in an area hard hit by the troubles.
PS I am promised some video footage in the next couple of days.
People would’t have to protest if you did not walk where you were not wanted. Whats next Garvaghy?
The mark of a civilised society is a balance of rights. I think that that has worked here- the right to free assembly in a public place has been exercised responsibly as has the right to protest. I stand to be corrected, but none of this took place in anyones’ front garden.
I think whiterock was a positive move forward – the orange were restricted to a respectful parade, and the residents were able to observe a peaceful protest.
The orange dont view this as a victory and neither do the residents, thats the nature of compromise and the result epitomises the values of mutual respect and toleration.
As Tim Attwood points out, ”The good behaviour of the marchers and supporters this year does not take away from the fact that the parades commission effectively rewarded them for their atrocious behaviour last year.’
Even Adams said the PC surrendered to loyalist threats.
This parade took place peacefully, because the residents had no choice, they did not want any trouble, unlike the orange who if not granted to walk nationalist streets subject the community to four days of violence at a cost of £3million to the tax payer. Hardly a balance of rights.
As Tim Attwood points out, ‘’The good behaviour of the marchers and supporters this year does not take away from the fact that the parades commission effectively rewarded them for their atrocious behaviour last year.’
Sean Murray said on BBC that the residents have been taken for granted and this must end
Now the Provos have decommissioned, expect more of the same. The PC has always given into the threat of force from whatever side. Republicans no longer have the wherewithal to play that game. Also it’s clear that SF didn’t want any trouble ahead of the talks which are going to involve an inevitable signing up to policing. So the last thing they needed was pictures of nationalists fighting the cops.
Unionism just keeps on winning, and its inability to publically concede that provides the cover for SF to keep moving into full acceptance of NI as a state.
Wait for Garvaghy. 100 to one they walk down Garvaghy. It’s a dead cert.
Brenda
“Wait for Garvaghy. 100 to one they walk down Garvaghy. It’s a dead cert.”
Why would a token march with a legal protest in Portadown be so bad?
Seems to me the shinners don’t want any trouble in the lead up to the general election in the south. May well be a different story next year.
Perhaps the orangemen will try to walk down Garvaghy, if only as part of a strategy to make sinn fein seem so soft in the face of unionism that many of their potential supporters in the south may become disillusioned. I don’t know how truly independent the Parades Commission is but I imagine that at the end of the day these decisions are really taken by the government. Hain’s desire to get 2 orangemen onboard in the run up to garvaghy may indicate that there is indeed some truth in the idea that this strategy is being undertaken.
‘I must admit that today made me genuinely hopeful. I don’t care about “They only did it because….” or “But what about…” . Both sides delivered.’
Loyalists delivered absolutely nothing.
The more I listen to nationalist negativity, in the face of every eventuality, the more I am convinced they are simply not up to the job of peaceful coexistance with their neighbours.
Then you need to do more thinking, to comprehend the situation more accurately, thereby to have more of a clue, so as to better question your mores…
See…
it’s always someone else fault.
the saying you get the politicians you deserve, well what the fuck did the nationalist people do to deserve the shower of shit and the rat bags who call themselves community reps, 30 odd years and all we get “I nominate Ian Paisley for first minister” a big house in Donegal and the hell with the people .the orange men will walk where they want so get used to it , Gerry Kelly will be minister for policing and he will bring back the broy harriers, that will teach ye reps for not voting s/f brenda is right wait for garvaghy 100
“Unionists keep on winning……”
What have they won?
Over thirty years they’ve lost everything.
They dominated and controlled their own government, police force, jobs, media – now what have they got?
No government, no police force, no employment,
worst educational standards in these islands.
Areas controlled and run by paramilitaries.
And all they want is to be able to march through catholic areas – let them march. Our day will soon come.
Difference with Garvaghy is about two miles past 60 houses and the shear violence inflicted on that community by the OO/UDA/UVF from the mid 1800′s during thier “civil parade”.
50%
I think it already has!
Tonight was very hopeful, but as with all these things it is the aftermath and analysis is all important. I think Tim Attwood missed a stroke. This came at the end of dialogue which the OO have had to accept. Last year’s violence did them great harm and they have had to bend. Instead he has just been SF-lite.
The story is the further splitting between pragmatists and fundamentalists on both sides. It is just becoming more clear who will win in the end. The Governments will grind down the extremists in the end.
As Tim Attwood points out, ‘’The good behaviour of the marchers and supporters this year does not take away from the fact that the parades commission effectively rewarded them for their atrocious behaviour last year.’
…obvious really isn’t it? A simple point very well made.
Just logged on to Slugger and saw the Orange,
Are Holland playing football in Belfast tonight??????
50%+ mo cara wake up and smell the coffee,unionists have their stormont back. and now its cooperfastened by int law the republic has dropped its claim to sovernity, ie., articles 2+3 of the constitution,same police but another name, the s/f reps are now nothing more than houseboys to Paisley ,er,umn. if its ok please can I on behalf of the people we betrayed now nominate his greatness the very rev Ian
Paisley lord Divis street as first minister,poor /no employment fuck work when the dummy tits are giving us 80 million for burning busses and Mc Aleese is arse licking gangesters arses,area,run by paramilitaries they haven gone away you know?and to make it all worse I predict Gerry Kelly minister for home affairs will be the next person on this island to sign internment papers on the nationalist people with information supplied by the local chucks/mi5 yip your right 50%+ things have changed we were once a proud people getting up of our knees, now those big house people have put the cause of Irish freedom back at least 50 years /
Just logged on to Slugger and saw the Orange,
Are the mobile phone giant’s employee’s taking strike action in Belfast??????
Does the lead banner say:
500 Free Texts and 200 Free minutes When You sign up to ORANGE??????????
The banner should read – we suport & commemorate a fully armed & active paramilitary organisation who are the biggest drug suppliers in the country and who are still killing catholics, protestants and their own.
Mastermind comes to Belfast.
First contestant, Grand Master Orange Order.
Question one: Who invented the mobile telephone???
Grand Master Orange Order:
William of Orange!!!!
If you take the Orange Order and apply them to history,
a clear translation are the words VICHY, or Quisling!!!!!
If you take Ian Paisley and apply him to history, a clear translaltion is Henri-Philippe Petain or Vidkun Quisling.
Good news Fair Deal
I trust you behaved yourself ;o)
‘The more I listen to nationalist negativity, in the face of every eventuality, the more I am convinced they are simply not up to the job of peaceful coexistance with their neighbours.’
Last year the unionist community did not get its way and we were subjected to a week of violence from the unionist community.
This year the orange enhanced Parades Commission decided to let the unionists have their way and give them a march on the road that they again wanted to dominate, thus no unionist violence.
Despite this rewarding of unionist violence the nationalist community did not copy last years reaction of their unionist neighbours and stayed peaceful.
Thus nationalaist delivered. Further, unionists suitably placated did not need to subject us to another week of violence.
“Unionists have their Stormont back………”
Were you ever up in Stormont in the 50s/60s?
It was a very cold place for the very few taigs.
Now the place is teeming with catholics – they even have real jobs just like the prods!
In 1968 the Irish Government had to make representation to the British Government about the anti-catholic progrom through the United Nations – now we effectively have joint authority!
Raise your eyes – we’re off our knees.
Let them march – it’s all they have left.
“we are off our knees”,what self pitying shite,i would suggest you go to Burma,or tinpot dicatatorships before you come out with this self serving crap you fool.
well 50%+ so this is what those brave men starved to death for, so Gerry, Martin british agents and their lackeys could stuff their faces in the stormont restaurant, oh boy free free free at last, and as for tin pot dicatators try the bannana rep next door one Michael Mc Dowell springs to mind, a goverment who turns a blind eye to mass murder, I refer to Dublin, Monaghan, also who allow the use of Shannon airport to those real int terrorists the yanks in their wicked scheme to torture people.
50% +
“Our day will soon come”
Is that the new Republican slogan ?
What is that in Gaelic
Chuggy ar la….. (forgive my spelling I never wanted to be a teacher in the ROI)
martin, you mainly sound quite unhappy that the war is over. What is it you want ?
Perhaps you’d like to go back to the days of daily shootings and bombings ?
On the subject of the thread, I’m inclined to agree with most of what Pat McLarnon has written. The best way to win this argument with the Orange Order is to show respect for the right of free assembly, which the unionist leadership does not accept.
Ultimately it is a person’s civil right to shout “fuck the pope”. The cool thing is that in doing so, the organizations involved sow the seeds of their own destruction.
Perhaps they should organise elections on a more frequent basis – and in September or October. It seems to put manners on the political extremists for awhile.
Should the OO be allowed to march wherever they wish? Absolutely.
Should they? Absolutely not.
A good deal of the mainstream unionist support for controversial marches is in the defence of the same civil liberties as the rest of the UK.
Let them march and this liberal facade will quickly fade and their anti-democratic, right wing agenda will be as unpopular as it is in the rest of the UK.
So here’s agreement with 50%, let them march, it is all they have left of an archaic settler mentality that is becoming increasingly alienated by the modern world.
V
Bertie
I always do
Pat
1. Again your narrative ignores that nationalism has not been averse to using violence when it is unhappy with a PC decision.
2. A high proprtion of this parade is made up of Shankill lodges and bands. Many of the participants lost friends and some relatives in the Frizzells Fish Shop bombing. Yesterday prominently placed among the protestors was a republican from Ardoyne. This republican has been blamed in the media for planning and ordering taht bomb attack and it is a deeply held belief in the Shankill that he was. Parade participants passed within feet if not inches of that individual without a word being said, that requires delivery.
comrade stalin a cara how do you arrive at the conculision that I long for a return to war, by pointing out what is in fact the only truth of 30years+ civil strife, ie, a bunch of carpetbaggers from all sides sitting in stormont not even administiring british rule ,but lining their pockets and when the privitisation of our water arrives watch how many of them become shareholders in that company,take a look at the republic the celtic tiger is great for those who have with their off shore bank accounts etc, not for the workers though ,no mo cara the words truth and justice should be what we all seek .
Pat.
I think you miss my point.
In the past we would hear Nationalists and Republicans talk about violence as a means of defeating their neighbours.
Now we hear them talk about non violence, but they still focus upon it being a means of defeating their neighbours.
This thread has more than enough examples.
Nationalists don’t want peaceful coexistance, they want the defeat of their neighbours, through whatever methods bring this about.
This is the negativity I referred to.
TAFKABO,whaterever that means ,since it was founded this scetarian little bit of Ulster ie., six of the nine counties,has been dominated by secterian strife, it was the only way the bigots in control could keep their people in check, anytime there seemed to be a coming together of workers /unemployed ,ie the odr the big house politicos played the orange card, divide and conquer the brits taught them well.you cannot trample over peoples rights and not expect some reaction, no matter how superior you may feel .as a nationalist I dont want to coexist with my neighbours I want peace and justice for all of us no just a shabby deal that suits a few well healed carpetbaggers. the sooner the people of this country fucks all the clergy and their political gombeen men/womem into the lagan the sooner we will begin to relaise we are one with each other ,may your dog go with you as Dave Allen used to say .
“Go to Burma, or other tinpot dictatorships……”
I don’t need to, I spent over 40 years living under ther dictatorship of a protestant dominated Stormont. I have active experience of a ‘shoot to kill’ policy of a police dominated state, pograms,
job discrimination, gerrymandering.
The point I’m making, which is obviousely anathama (James look it up in a dictionary you idiot) to most of the ‘master race’ apologists of the OO, is that we have effect Joint Authority in NI. Within 15 years there will be a catholic majority and we will be able to treat the ‘master race’ with the same consideration that we were treated.
All the prods want is to be able to dress up in bowler hats and march through catholic areas – they have NO other aspiration; so let them and let us get on the business of governing.
Once they have marched up and down , they get full,eat a chinese take away and head home culturally satisfied until next year.
When they are not allowed to march they murder people like Constable Reilly,Constable Arbuckle and the Quinn childre.
There is nothing like the ability to pull out random example to try and sell your point of view, is there?
martin, SF are becoming constitutional politicians. What do you expect ?
fair_deal:
Parade participants passed within feet if not inches of that individual without a word being said, that requires delivery.
An individual who lost his wife and (I think) child to the Shankill bombers is a cross-community activist, works in community relations, and I believe he has met and worked with republicans on several occasions. That requires incredible courage and is undoubtedly extremely hard. But I won’t accept that those who march with the UVF/UDA among their ranks and refuse to engage in cross-community work of any kind deserve the same respect. If you can’t walk past a person without controlling yourself maybe it’s a better idea not to do it ?
50%+
I don’t need to, I spent over 40 years living under ther dictatorship of a protestant dominated Stormont.
You got a problem with Protestants ? What is it ?
whatabout s/f changing their name to shamless fuckers, after all its a name that matches their personailities,I would not trust them with the biscuit tin money.
50%+
“I don’t need to, I spent over 40 years living under ther dictatorship of a protestant dominated Stormont…Within 15 years there will be a catholic majority and we will be able to treat the ‘master race’ with the same consideration that we were treated.”
If you spent 40 years living under Stormont, then you must have been born at latest 1932, making you 74 so in 15 years time (2021) you will be about 90 and possibly too doddery to effect the revenge you mention.
I have no ‘problem’ with any NI protestant. However I do refuse to accept their crocodile tears for pleas of acceptance of their ‘ cultural identity’.
Other than the ‘right’ to dress up in bowler hats and march behind UFF colour parties and banners through catholic areas they have no cultural identity.
No literature, no music, no art,( what about och ye de noo…ed)
I fully realise the hyprocacy of their position as the ‘master race’ in Ulster.
OO claims of ‘religious peaceful processions’ evaporate in the wake of the murderous aftermaths of there ‘cultural festivals’.
Comrade Stalin you have nothing to be concerned about. Soon we will be in a position to treat the protestant population of NI in the same enlightened manner in which we were treated – so whats your problem?
Fair_Deal,
That’s fantastic. There’s nothing better than an honourable draw between peace-loving folks.
here 50%+ talk for yourself , I am not wearing a bowler hat for fuckin nobody, and as far as a coloured ribbon well only if its lavender
Slug,
Only a year or two out!
What do you mean revenge?
I only stated that a future catholic majority would treat a protestant minority in EXACTLY the same enlightened manner in which we were treated.
What on earth could you possibly mean by revenge?
ps ,. I was only jesting about the lavender sash ,
50%+
What makes you think a catholic majority would be in any position to make good on your implied threats, or that they wouldn’t be met with appropriate response by the unionist community?
I don’t like Dr Who myself, but I must say that picture is great. Can’t wait for the video.
TAFKABO,
Shame on you!
What can you possibly mean by ‘implied threats’?
Are you in any way suggesting that the protestant majority in NI treated their catholic minority neighbours with anything other than magnaminity and even handedness?
As scripture says; “do onto others as you would have done onto yourself – for so as you do onto others so it will be done onto you”. I think that inscription was on the Brian Robinson banner at yesterdays OO ‘cultural festival’.