Donaldson shot dead
Just getting early word that Denis Donaldson has been shot dead… Hain has called it ‘this barbaric act…” Pete has more above.
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I wonder why Scap survived?.
Maybe this guy was living too close to home.
Scap is in Italy. Guess the absence of land borders poses problems for some agents or agencies
Righrt raff, for yer spiderman egg…do you beliuve his killing was wrong, no ifs no buts….just say yes or no.
Cormac the Glenties is not downtown Baghdad, wise up. If he was hiding from the Brits, a tight set of streets in West Belfast would be harder for them to get in and out of there, not out in the country. If he was hiding from the Brits he was thick about how to protect himself . Considering he had loyalist hit squads on his arse over the years don’t you think he’d be a bit smarter, after all the Provos taught him about personal security or are they that incompetent too? Which one is it?
P O’Neill, armchair general on ye.
If it smells like gangster symbolism,that what it is.Has all the hallmarks of “Fredo’s” treatment by Michael Corleone in the Godfather – the timely wait,the isolating,the guoulish severed hand symbolism a warning to others reflecting the “sleeps with the fishes” message.All said- worthy of note is the fact that this dispicable act comes but a few days after another mole leaked the SF/IRA masterplan for destabilsing the island – time for a warning to the others!!!This makes the most sense.
Actually Cormac, let me save you stirring up the energy especially since the only chocolate egg is going to raff..I suppose the Provos must have been incompetent, they were run by the Brits..20 years for Donaldson..god knows how long for Scap..and thats only two of those they knew…an entire movement moved about by British puppeteers since the 80s that would answer the tail off in actions from the 80s onward.
Martin Ingram
“The bottom line is a man is dead. RIP Dennis.”
Pretty rich, coming from a man who’s job was to eventually put people like Donaldson in the predicament he now finds himself in.
Has anyone else heard that who ever killed him, supposedly cut off one of his hands as well?
Missfitz, did he get an Easyjet?
Well Yokel,
I am reliably informed that….
wait….
secure information….
sorry cant say which airline….
Yokel what are you talking about, Baghdad? Nobody suggested that it was.
I’ll ask you again, do you know of the Glenties? have you been there? Simple questions that can be simply answered.
Seems not from your speculation that you and the Brits would have no problems in finding him – trying saying that to the hundreds of ra men on the run that passed through the area over the years.
We don’t know who did this so I cant say that the provos are incompetent over their security, in this matter anyway.
P.S. how about a cream egg then?
By the way Raff, clearly P O’Neill thought you justified his killing..or else his post dont make sense.
There a 2 parallel blog entries on this topic. Surely one could be closed.
The severing of the hand, if true, nudges my belief that this was done by those with an interest in provoking a political response that impacts negatively on the PP.
It seems to me that the reason his hand was cut off by the murderers is to deflect speculation that it was suicide.
Therefore the motive of whoever killed him, which ranges from the Provos to the Security Forces is to ensure that everyone knows he was murdered.
I would have imagined that if the Provos wanted him dead that he would have had an ‘accident’ or disappeared.
My hunch, and it is no more, based on the severed hand is that it may well have been dissident Republicans on the basis that many are of the opinion that the Provisional Movement, Irish and British Govt are all working of the same agenda. They may have concluded that they had to be sure that if they murdered Donaldson, as an act of political vandalism, that the British and Irish governments could not dismmiss the murder as a suicide.
I believe this was the work of the PIRA.
British agents would not hang about torturing and cutting hands off etc. Agents get in, bust a cap and are away before you know it.
The Provos would never allow this man to live after his twenty years of touting at the higest level.
I can’t decide if the attempted hand amputation is intended to be symbolic or not.
Yokel many people can look at the same thing and see it differently! Why are you trying to goad me into saying whether or not I agree with this mans death. What I think about his death is meaningless; the question is why do YOU need to know what I think about it? I wont take the egg so you can twist my words to suit you own agenda, I will see if P O Neil will get me one!
And yes Yokel the Provos WERE incompetent.
Can anyone point to were it is definitively stated that his hand was severed as in with a knife or some sharp instrument as opposed to being shot off as he tried to cover his face or whatever – thanks in advance.
RIP Denis Donaldson.
By the words of those who new him, he was a clever and engaging man. He was blackmailed to become a british agent and fulfilled that role for 20 years. He wasn’t a member of the ‘nutting squad’ so his actions appear to have been entirely about bringing about an end to the IRA campaign. He was taking an enormous risk over all those years and I imagine he was very frightened on occasion that he would be found out. I bet he never thought that the PSNI would be the ones to out him. If he betrayed the IRA, he himself was certainly betrayed and paid in the most horrible imaginable way. May God have mercy on his soul, if He exists as I hope he does. The intelligence agencies responsible for running Denis Donaldson and responsible for his anonymity bear a heavy responsibility for his death, irrespective of whether they actively killed him or simply abandoned him to his fate.
To Martin Ingram, I have read your message of condolence to Mr Donaldson’s family and I’m sure it is heartfelt. Repeatedly on this site you have dropped hints as heavy as anvils about the identity of further ‘moles’ inside the IRA. Without in any sense wishing to imply that I accept the veracity of anything you say, please think again about your policy on this. Events have shown this to be a very dangerous area. The dead cannot come back to life, the living can die.
Cormac, i know right around the bluestacks and and adjoining regions because I walked them and drove around them and the areas near Iniskeel. I stayed in the same family run hotel in Glenties, twice. It’s not South Armagh noweher near it.
Secondly, are you telling me if the Brits wanted his assasination they couldnt get him where he was?
They could have easily got him where he was and he had better places to hide, hence he weren’t hiding from the Brits.
1. If they can get in and out of West Belfast or South Armagh or East Tyrone on ops without detection they can get in and out of there. Each of the above areas was way more hostile than out in the Glenties. Most of all, they managed to bug Shinner offices and cars without detection for some time, shooting Donaldson in the middle of the country was not so hard. If you and I can drive around there so can a few Brits trained to avoid detection.
2. Sure the Provos have no guns isnt that right? So who would have stopped abunch of gun toting Brits anyway?
Cormac, I know that you will cling to your theory because it suits you but you may ask the leadership of Sinn Fein who were agreeing statements with the Brits about this killing a few hours ago why they are letting the Brits off with it if your theory is correct. Probably because they are in the Brits pockets eh.
Missfitz, thats very firm info..thanks
Donaldson didnt move when found by the Sunday World because he didnt expect to be killed.
With respect to those who suggested that cutting his hand off was to dispel the notion of suicide, would the same effect not be created by merely failing to leave a weapon in the vicinity of Mr Donaldson?
The symbolism is the immediate key to this execution – a housekeeping message is being sent to the activists. Compare also to the fate of Eammon Collins,same modus operandi public “murder and disfigurement of the traitor”after reassurances.All points to Mafia style messaging of South Armagh “crew” pulling the lads back into line after recent leaking on the laptops,the 800k in the barn,and the destabilshing ireland strategy.
My first reaction was to feel sorry for this wretched man. Nobody deserves to die in this way.
I wonder how it was that the governments and everyone else were condemning a murder, rather than talking of a suicide, so soon after the news broke – before any autopsy was done. Clearly Donaldson must have been tortured in a visible fashion.
From the AP:
“But Ireland’s national police said it was not clear whether Donaldson, 55, had been killed or committed suicide. In a statement, the force said the scene around his body in Glenties, County Donegal, was cordoned off for a forensic examination planned for Wednesday.”
Okay — the first *police* statement I’ve seen. No conclusion, no mention of hacked off limbs, etc. Pretty much the standard “we dunno… yet.”
Also from the AP: “If police determine that Donaldson was killed, it would be certain to fuel the hostility of the major Protestant party, the Democratic Unionists, to cooperating with Sinn Fein.
British Prime Minister Tony Blair and Ahern are expected Thursday to announce a new blueprint for reviving power-sharing. The joint governments’ proposals, which have been 3 1/2 years of diplomacy in the making, recommend that Northern Ireland’s legislature reconvene in May…”
Now, given the above, can anyone give a rational motive why PIRA would kill DD two days before this? There is no percentage in it. To provide equal time, unless its intramural one-upsmanship week amongst the securocrats, they had nothing to benefit, since they were the number two (or number one — mileage may vary, depending on personal beliefs) suspects before / after PIRA. The only ones who benefit would be those parties on both sides of the line who would prefer the GFA and the whole of the PP wither on the vine.
Raff, say hello to yer brother Riff for me.
Thank you for your non answer.
My desire to hear your answer is because of my genuine concern to hear your opinion..really. I know I have posted on this forum that I come here to pontificate like everyone else but I’d like to wihdraw that for as long as 3..2…1 ok reinstated
Under my first post where I did state that I was waiting for the first post to attempt to justify his killing, i wanted to be fair and ensure that you were clearly doing so but you have refused the prize on entrpment grounds. I could give the prize egg to the armchair general there P O’Neill but I suspect that the only time he seen active service that would keep him fit is to watch the sport on TV. Anyway he didnt really attempt to justify it, he said well done so it don’t count
I’ll be having that egg then. As a good citizen, I cant give it to Cormac as he’s clearly eaten too much chocolate and the sugar rush has gone to hsi head suggesting that the Glenties is some fortress that the Brits couldnt run a deniable operation into.
Not sure missfitz would want a spiderman egg though her flight information service was invaluable. I think it would sell better in Belfast if it was called a Spidey egg.
Bottom line on this whole issue is this, we are mean’t to be beyond this sort of business but clearly we are not. Northern Ireland is like a Spiderman egg, you really know what you are going to get, plain fucking sick and unhealthy from too much of it.
“… would the same effect not be created by merely failing to leave a weapon in the vicinity of Mr Donaldson?”
Or just by shooting him in the back of the head?
Dohhh.
Heres a question, why weren’t the Garda watching around there unless there was believed to be no threat?
Yokel you are taking this place too seriously, and to get worked up over the death of a man who many would not p’ss on if he was on fire sums it up. People here feel that they must defend all life because we ahve been through it etc, etc.
Bottom line is play with the sharks expect to gert bitten. That is not me justifying this mans death this again is a fact. I dont fuck with the Brits and the Provos because I know that I could get killed, I am sure Donaldson was at least that smart!
And if you are worried about the egg I will take it.
Yokel-
He wasn’t on the close protection list. There was no specific threat against him as the IRA are on ceasefire and Gerry Adams assured his safe passage. The Garda was aware of his location in Donegal, and he was spotted by Gardaí in Glenties yesterday, but unless there was a threat to his life, they wouldn’t have expended the large amounts of man-hours on close surveillance. However, as it transpires, Donaldson was more than just under threat, and he has met a grisly demise.
Yokel
I have a preference for milk chocolate bunnies.
Not that I have ever been accused of boiling bunnies you understand.
I just like bunnies.
Someone has been using Google again to find out about the Glenties?
Instead of putting words in my mouth why not quote me and show where I stated “Glenties is some fortress”.
Ah but your good at putting words into others people mouths instead of quoting.
Why werent the Garda watching? What all two Garda in the area? Now that would be a waste of resources.
Cormac, your brain is brilliant at selective reading alright. The Provos would have shown Donaldson ages ago about how to protect himself.
Thus if he was using their methods to hide from the Brits then they must have taught him pretty poorly. Now your logic is that you don’t know if they were incompetent because you don’t know who did when in fact who did it as irrelevent, either they taught him well or they didn’t and if he was hiding from the Brits, as you suggest they taught him badly cos I could have driven up to his hiding place after seeing the Sunday World article.
I know it sticks in yer craw to possibly say the Provos might have been poor so I won’t ask you again. You got caught on a trivial, god, an imaginary hook that I just made up and your answer was ‘no comment’ because you suddenly realised what corner you got yerself in. I won’t mention it again if you don’t sure.
And no, no cream egg,. I’m definitely keeping those cos I’m a selfish old git
Another human being gone and a family in mourning.
Sad, desperately sad.
You eat bunnies Fitz? Holy good god….I’m disgusted…are they nicer than steak?
I believe the PIRA murdered this man because they want the DUP to pull out of the upcoming talks about returning to power sharing.
While they deny involvement in the murder gullible people will believe them. This will leave everyone wondering why the DUP yet again refuse to enter into talks with Sinn Fein.
Sinn Fein have been pulling stunts like this since the start of the peace process. They want to be seen to be the architects of peace but in reality they are only interested in making their enemies look bad.
Yokel – take a brief walk for 5 minutes and come back to the board with more sense as yet again you seem to be assuming “everything” – maybe head over to the Glentities instead of reading about it on the web and you may learn a thing or two that isnt mentioned online.
You can keep your cream eggs – I don’t take sweeties from dirty old gits.
The IRA was MIGHTY QUICK with its statement.
This thing about Glentiles, it was a well known fact that DD had a holiday home in Donegall among republicans. Thus whether it was fortress or not, is inconsequental, since among republicans it was well known. According to Pat Doherty on RTE, he said it was reported in the print media where DD was, but everybody knew he had a holiday home there. So he wasn’t hiding from republicans or anybody else it seems, since both republicans and presumably his brit pay masters had previous knowledge about his location. It didn’t take a lot of brain power to work out where he’d go.
Obviously he felt safe. The journalist who spoke to him, said he was surprised they found him, but not unnerved.
So it looks like he was hiding from no one, he obviously believed he’d be ok/
i dont watch sport yokel…but the way i justify donaldsons death is simply because he was an informer….he was up to his neck in it for years, he knew the rules…boom headshot.
funny the word i have to type in at the bottom is justice13….denis got justice….
Slug: “The IRA was MIGHTY QUICK with its statement.”
Gee… lessee… the worst possible thing happens at the worst possible moment.
How quickly would you have moved?
They taste like chicken yokel. Thats me, the bunny boiler
TAFKABO
“Another human being gone and a family in mourning. Sad, desperately sad.”
What, no jumping to conclusions with PIRA blame?
…the fools, the fools, the fools. they have left us our fenian dead. and while ireland holds these graves, Ireland Unfree Shall Never Be At Peace
what part of that do you smart folk not understand….
Watched Ian junior on newsnight. He says SF/IRA=prime suspects.
Hugh Jordan on newsnight saying when IRA killed garda mc cabe they denied involvement, but that proved worthless. Ian junior say they denied being involved in McCartney murder, and they will not seperate individual republicans from SF?IRA.
Linking it to stormont, spy ring brings down stormont, just as talks about to begin, DD shot dead, one has to admit it is coincidental.
So it looks like the result of all of this is a death knell (excuse pun) for the PP.
“a death knell (excuse pun) for the PP.”
What is the pp?
PP=peace process.
Slug
“The IRA was MIGHTY QUICK with its statement”
Yes they were quick but not quick enough to beat Mick Fealfy who started this thread. Not quick enough to beat Wikpedia who had Donaldson dead at 6:30 when I checked. Not quick enough for BBC news at 6:30 either.By your reasoning then all the above knew that Donaldson was going to be killed and had their reports ready.
Do me a favour and stop with the idle conspiracy theories everyone. The political fall-out is where the real story is.
Snuff Box
The BBC and other news gathering organisations are there to find and transmit the news as fast as possible. They are in the business of news.
Organisations usually need time to issue a definitive statement. The IRA (i.e. Gerry Adams) were SUSPICIOUSLY QUICK with theirs.
Slug: “The BBC and other news gathering organisations are there to find and transmit the news as fast as possible. They are in the business of news.
Organisations usually need time to issue a definitive statement. The IRA (i.e. Gerry Adams) were SUSPICIOUSLY QUICK with theirs. ”
I repeat — politically, the worst possible thing happened at the wrost possible time. How quickly would you have moved in Gerry’s shoes?
Adams was in touch with the Donaldson family BEFORE the news broke. Neighbours heard shots around 4, and the Garda find him after that, and this thread started 5.30, so Adams knew pretty quick. However, they (all politicians etc) I am sure were alerted before the news media broke it. Pat doherty claims he only heard it on RTE news like the rest of us.
I expect its the way things work, rather than anyone being more quick than anyone else.
What, no jumping to conclusions with PIRA blame?
Mickaline
Despite what you may think, I try not to jump to conclusions without some indicators as to which way I ought to be jumping.
Dennis Donaldson cut a lonely and wretched figure since his unmasking, but that wasn’t enough for some psychopaths.
And to be honest, there will be decades ahead of us to talk about the whys and wherefores, at the moment I’m just sad and angry that we have reduced ourselves to this yet again.
I don’t believe in the death penalty.
Who stands to gain most from this man’s death?
That would point to the murderer, wouldn’t it? At least, that what Hercule Poirot always says.