Hi all,

J McConnell, I’m glad you looked at the site so you would know what I was referring to…thank you for that. Also, I’m glad that you understand that American children are taught in grade school and high school that it was the AMerican Revolution and since the majority of people do not go on for further historical anylsis of American history in colleges and major in other subjects other than American history…the vast American public think of the war as and in terms of…the American Revolution. Thanks again and have a great weekend.

posted by Kathy C

It seems we are talking at cross-purposes here.

I did a quick dig and discovered that the only place that commonly uses the term ‘American Revolution’ are grade school and high school history books, and t.v programmes targeted at that particular audience. Which is why I have not run into the term very often. I tend to get my history from academic and scholarly books rather than grade school text books.

I also had a quick look at the PBS site about the TV program. I have vague memories of watching a bit of the first episode on KQED in the late ’90′s but as it was all rather high school fluff I soon lost interest. Not a patch on the American Experience documentary series which is t.v history at its finest.

J McConnell

You could be right there, you could also say the same about the Catholic Irish who didn´t make it to New York / Boston.

Hi all,

Sorry I missed typed the web site….it is:

http://www.pbs.org/ktca/liberty/index.html

or you can go do a web search type in American Revolution and it will come up as “Liberty, The American Revolution.”

J. McConnell, I don’t feel when 348 tv stations air a show that states the American Revolution was called just that…the American Revolution is a weak point…it demo’s that in the US the American Revolution is being taught as just that…the American Revolution. Now, what makes history and political anylsis great is people can study and come up with their own theories and ideas why certain things happened. Yet, that does not negate the fact….those events are being taught and identified by the phrase….AMERCIAN REVOLUTION. have a great day.

Using the title of a PBS series to back up ones position is, well, a bit weak.

The usual term used in US history books is either the War of Independence or, in older book, the Revolutionary Wars. Although considering the political questions that were being fought over, and the political rhetoric used, it might be more accurate to call it “The English Civil War – Round II”.

The political rhetoric of the American Colonies in the 1760′s and 1770′s had more in common with Britain in the 1640′s than France in the 1780′s and 1790′s, which was the first real revolution in the modern sense.

What happened in the American Colonies was about as revolutionary as the Glorious Revolution of 1688. A shuffling of the ruling class but little beyond that.

Now the election of Jackson in 1828, that *was* a political revolution. It unleashed political forces that directly lead to the disaster of 1861.

J McConnell

Hi all,

In the US we have PBS television which is 348 public television stations and approx 90 million people watch it each week. The PBS programs are used in schools.

They had a series called, “Liberty, the American Revolution.”

http://www.pbs.org/ktc/liberty/index.html

and the series as the title suggest was all about the AMERICAN REVOLUTION….and it provided teachers aids to help teach the AMERICAN REVOLUTION in schools to supplement the series.

It is being taught as the AMERICAN REVOLUTION…not being taught as colonial retreat.

Why I mentioned the GM add campaign was to highlight even advertisers are cashing in on the mind set of AMERICAN REVOLUTION. Whether it is the AMERICAN REVOLUTION where we beat the british and won our independence or the AMERICAN REVOLUTION in the industrail age….one of the largest corporations in the world opted to advertise their cars based on AMERICAN REVOLUTION…and contect to people based on their concept of AMERICAN REVOLUTION.

Also, I never stated the AMERICAN REVOLUTION was
a joint protestant catholic cause. I stated Catholics fought in the AMERICAN REVOLUTION and Gen. Washington was mindful of not offending the Catholic fighters.

> So to present the early US history as some sort of joint catholic-protestant cause is a big mistake.

I could not agree more.

And that’s why the election of JFK in 1960 was a real break-through. His religion was a big election issue but unlike Al Smith in 1928, he was able to overcome (just) what was a big electoral handicap in a lot of swing states in the South and Mid-West.

Its only in the last thirty years that the No-Nothing tradition (the politics of No Popery) , which had a very long history in US politics, finally disappeared as an important political factor. Although there are still whiffs of it in the anti-immigrant politics of So. Cal and the border states.

Kathy_C’s grasp of US history and politics seems to be as shaky as her knowledge of the history and politics of Ireland, North and South. Well intentioned but very muddle headed.

J McConnell

One of grievances against King George from the revolutionaries was that he had emancipated the Catholics in Quebec:

“Also the act passed in the same session for establishing the Roman Catholic religion in the province of Quebec, abolishing the equitable system of English laws, and erecting a tyranny there, to the great danger, from so total a dissimilarity of religion, law, and government of the neighboring British colonies, by the assitance of whose blood and treasure the said country was conquered from France”

One of the revolutionaries first acts was an attempted invasion of Canada, which failed as the local Catholics, unsurprisingly, remained loyal to Britain. An 1812 invasion failed too, as the Catholics in Canada were wary of the anti-catholic early US, and the US militia were unreliable.

So to present the early US history as some sort of joint catholic-protestant cause is a big mistake. Just like deliberately provocative statements about the Sons of Ulster’s possible membership qualifications.

They may have built America but they didnt half balls up the 6 counties. Perhaps the dregs stayed behind in the auld country.

The one after Scotland that is.

What in beelzebubs balls has GM motors and their new sales drive got to do with the American War of Independence.

What I said was that most modern historians would argue that Independence was not a Revolution…but more of a colonial retreat.

Also not one post states that Catholics didn´t take part..it is you that is making the religion of the participants an issue and it just so happens most of the leaders and founding fathers of America where of Ulster Scots stock.

Of course what happened next in your country regarding slavery and the extermination of the indigenous peoples there is another story.

Perhaps you should concentrate on the rights and issues of the under privillaged black populations in inner city projects before making comment on issues in Northern Ireland.

Hi all,

Doctor Who, I didn’t say the American Revolution was a Catholic Revolution…I just commented that there were Catholics in the Revolution after there were comments Catholics weren’t in it.

As for Americans not referring to the war of Independence as the American Revolution is incorrect. Even General Motors the car company is trying to get more Americans to buy their cars and are marketing them as the New American Revolution….cashing in on the pride Americans feel about THE American Revolution and trying to have it link up to purchases of their GM cars. Hope you’re feeling better…. ;o)

posted by Kathy C

As Americans go, I find your posts extremely nauseating…. the SOL flute band can be a fully inclusive band on account that both men and womwn can join it…now naturally if not only non Protestants but non Orange men/women wanted to join them, well Freud probably would have had a name for them.

Your atempts to distort your own country´s history is disturbing…Most modern Historians don´t look at American war of independence as a revolution, but more of a colonial retreat…Most of the grudges aginst the British where about money and hey don´t forget many who fought where actually first generation settlers.

Of course some Catholics contributed, how else could they have got French support, but your attempt to turn it into a Catholic revolution is laughable.

American was built largely by Ulster Presbyterians, who travelled far and wide in your vast country. The Irish Catholics on the other hand came much later and stopped at the first port of call (New York / Boston) and set up their own little anti british communities.

This is not the view of Southerners other than a miniscule but vicious minority.

Brian Boru

Hi all,

I forgot in the above to respond to the Clonard Martyrs comment. I don’t know whether they have a flute band…I thought flute bands just came and played at the commerations….I really can’t comment on a band I don’t know anything about..but the name doesn’t show that it is a large area of Ireland.
My point about Sons of Ulster….if you say that…then it implies it includes all sons of ulster…but the sons of ulster is a protestant group…ergo a more appropriate name would be something like Orange sons’ of Ulster, or Protestant sons of Ulster….that is all I was saying….

Hi all, It is true that many in the American Revolution were protestant. However, there were Catholics as well. In fact Charles Carrol was the only Catholic that signed the declaration of independence…but a Catholic did sign.

George Washington…back in Nov 5, 1771 reprimanded the troops in Cambridge Massachusetts for celebrating the anti-Catholic Guy Fawkes Day…Washington didn’t want to offend the French Catholics or the Catholics in the colonies …..I even found a web site you can check this out on
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/gwhtml/1775.html

and George Washingto wrote a letter to Roman Catholics in March 1790 thanking them for what they did in the American Revolution…George’s words,
“And I presume that your fellow-citzens will not forget theh patriotic part which you took in the accomplishment of their Revolution, anmd the establishment of their government; or the important assistance which they received from a nation in which the Roman Catholic faith is professed.”

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?documentprint=396

As for bringing my parents into the dicussion…it reminded me of what is done on the school play ground…call someone’s parents a name….but fyi…my parents never went to a noraid meeting…

Now to the Green white and orange. Like I said on the other thread…it is a flag that groups people according to their religion…I would like to see aN Irish flag that doesn’t do that…that’s why I like the shamrock…the world over knows the shamrock is an Irish symbol….

And another fyi….I’m Catholic as well as a Daughter of the American Revolution…fancy that eh?

Denis Donaldson certainly has a lot to answer for.