RTE reporter attacked and called “Orange Bastard”
RTE have just put out a few words from their injured reporter Charlie Bird, who was pursued by rioters, attacked and called “Orange Bastard” by his attackers. Several people have been arrested and put before the courts already. It may be interesting to see precisely who turns up there over the next few days. Republican Sinn Fein denies being involved, but blames the Unionists for provoking the riots.
Henry,
“All the 13 charged so far have Dublin addresses. Clearly the more experienced northeners got away.”
4 of the 13 are East Europeans with Dublin addresses.
My own view is that this was a serious miscalculation on the part of an Garda Siochana.
If they weren’t in a position to put this march through with the bands etc. they shouldn’t have allowed it in that form.
For the Revolutionary 1st of May demonstrations in Berlin, where trouble is expected, the Berlin police generally number between 5 and 7 thousand.
All items that can be used to attack the police are removed and riot police surround every building site on the route. Standard practise.
Here we had a couple of hundred Gardai, ridiculous.
What should have been a show of strength by the Irish state of its intentions towards northern unionists turned into a show of strength by RSF and others of theirs.
I can tell you one thing if George Bush wanted to walk from Parnell Square to Leinster House the personell necessary to ensure it would have been on hand.
The state was a big loser here and McDowell and the police have big questions to answer.
George.
we ll be there the same time next week UVF
another peaceful parade attcked by republicans when is the irish goverment and uk goverment going to realise that the sinn fein/IRA/RIRA/CIRA/INLA don’t want peace
The vast majority of the people of Dublin (including myself) were
happy enough to let the parade take place despite knowing that a
similar nationalist/republican parade in unionist areas of the North
would certainly not be tolerated by the Orangemen. It was going to
be great to demonstrate openness and tolerance to a people most people
down here regard as being stuck in the 1600s. However thanks to our
local Dublin scumbags the Orangemen went home with their heads high
and oozing with moral righteousness. The trouble makers are the same
crowd of nose ring bearing tree huggers that wrecked Temple Bar a few
years ago on May Day. They represent nobody. The fact that they called
Charlie Bird an Orange B*stard says it all.
Sorry,
But the notion Love Ulster marchers have just had their worst fears about a United Ireland confirmed is just ridiculous.
If these loyalists had been allowed down O’Connell St on a red carpet and given a champagne reception at Leinster House followed by 5 star accomodation at the Shelbourne they would still be implacably opposed to the idea of equality with the rest of the Irish people.
Saturday’s episode was a very successful DUP stunt which could not have succeeded without the collaboration of Minister Michael McDowell.
So what if he was called an Orange B. Why is he not.
These orangemen should not of been allowed in Dublin in the first place and as soon as all Northern prods are removed to britain the better.
These orangemen should not of been allowed in Dublin in the first place and as soon as all Northern prods are removed to britain the better.
I was really pleased to see this comment from Keep Out, as I was beginning to think I was dreaming that neantherthals still exist, but here is living proof.
KO, this idea was floated in the 1930′s, but sensible people decided it was nonsense and insulting.
Your ideas are ludicrous, but if you want to expand with something sensible, go ahead, I always wanted to know how your thought process might go.
As a unionist I want to thank all the contributors from the republic for their kind words.
I had been led to belive that partion was something only a minority on the island wanted, but now I realise that many many fine citizens of the republic also support the idea of a border.
I just know that if we continue to work together, in a spirit of mutual hatred and contempt, then we will forever be apart.
Thanks for making the effort, big Ian is proud of you.
I already know that you “get” irony, the sight of tricolur waving thugs telling Unionsts they weren’t wanted showed me that
“These orangemen should not of been allowed in Dublin in the first place and as soon as all Northern prods are removed to britain the better”
Spoken like a budding Nick Griffith.
I thought it was only unionists who were Nazis.
i am a member of the sons of ulster flute band in randalstown.i went along with a number of band members to dublin on saturday to show my support for those victims of terrorism who lost their lives and support for their families.it was sad to see the hatred shown and trouble that took place.i would like to pass on our thanks to the garda for the superb job they did. unfortunately they were not prepared for the trouble and to this they had a number of officers hurt.however.we were not out to offend the people of dublin and want to make this clear.we only wanted to highlight the suffering and grief thats been imposed on our families and neighbours. SAM
Okay, usually I just stay well clear of the whole North/South debate because it’s ridiculous.
But FFS people! Is *anyone* here not going to whine about Unionists and Republicans?! I think we’re all missing an important point here;
A group of people tried to stage a peaceful march to express their own views WHATEVER THEY MAY BE. The fact that not only were they unable to do this, but the whole thing has turned into another Unionist/Republican debate is absolutely shocking. The only thing I’m going to say is this – I’m not so sure I want to live in a country where people claim to applaud freedom, but only if it’s by certain groups. Everyone on this island is entitled to express themselves within the limits of the law. And if I ever have children, I won’t have them born into a society of Them Versus Us mentality.
message for Brother Bird of Montrose Press LOL 1916
best wishes for a speedy recovery, but if you don’t pull through the lads will put your mugon the next banner
Bos na bua!
RSF blame us for “provoking the riots”…and how exactly did we do that when the closest we got to “protestors” were tricolour-waving hoods giving obscene middle-finger and slit-throat gestures to our buses on the way to our drop-off point around the corner from O’Connell Street?
The 2:38pm post came courtesy of Concerned Loyalist and not George2..what is going on-why does it persist in doing this?
sorry about the identity theft there george
it was me all along
darth
posted by Kathy C
Hi all,
Sam, I was fascinated by your post. I even went to the web and tried to see if your flute band had a web site….I couldn’t find one ;o(.
I had a few questions if you don’t mind….
1) why was your flute band choosen to go down to Dublin?
2) I see that the name of the group you are with is….”Son’s of Ulster Flute Band” Now, can any son of ulster join(cross community)…or just certain son’s?
and if not all son’s in ulster can join…what is your requirements for joining your group?
Kathy,
Back off and leave Sam alone. He (she?) wrote a calm, innocuous post relaying his firsthand observations of the day (and his reasons for going there). You in turn attacked him.
Take that cross off your shoulders and remind yourself that you’re an American … you are NOT part of the nationalist community that went through so much in the 60s and 70s. Nor, I’m guessing by his youthful sounding post, was Sam in any way responsible for those days, so leave him alone.
One last remark/question: Do you think Sam would be invited to join the Clonard Martyrs band?
posted by Kathy C
Hi all,
George…wow….I don’t have a cross on my shoulders and I didn’t attack Sam. I just asked Sam a few questions.
In the US we have a group…. Son’s of Liberty…which includes sons (descendents) of the men who fought in our Revolution against the British. It is all inclusive and isn’t based upon relgion. Now…to ask if Son’s of Ulster is an inclusive or exclusive group…is a question…not an attack.
Also, because a riot occured…I feel, it is fair to ask questions including…why was that band…Son’s of Ulster Flute Band choosen? And for that…you state I attacked Sam?
The riot was broadcast all around the world…and if someone saw or read that a group…”Son’s of Ulster Flute Band” came down from the north of Ireland to march…it is fair to question…who and what is the Son’s of Ulster Flute Band.
When a group claims the entirity of a region…Ulster and state they are the Son’s of that region….one can ask if it is open to all son’s and if not…why not….
posted by Kathy C
When a group claims the entirity of a region…
You mean like the rioters did on Saturday, and you have done several times by suggesting that unionists aren’t welcome in Dublin?
Tell us more about life over there, behind the irony curtain…..
“In the US we have a group…. Son’s of Liberty…which includes sons (descendents) of the men who fought in our Revolution against the British. It is all inclusive and isn’t based upon relgion.”
Phooey. While the SOL may not exclude based upon religion, your very description of them (I’ve never heard of them myself, though I have heard of the DAR) is exclusionary … if you’re not the son of the son of the … and so on, you can’t join. That’s exclusionary. And might I remind you (or inform you … sounds like your knowledge of American history is as myopic as your knowledge of Irish history) that the majority, if not all, of our American forefathers were Protestant. Ergo, I doubt many Catholics are in the SOL … or DAR.
“Also, because a riot occured…I feel, it is fair to ask questions including…why was that band…Son’s of Ulster Flute Band choosen?”
I’m guessing it’s because they were good.
“I don’t have a cross on my shoulders and I didn’t attack Sam”
Phooey squared. You’ve been needling posters throughout the day on a number of threads. Sam’s the latest victim. Considering the raw emotions of everyone due to yesterday’s events, you’d think you could be a bit more sensitive, but instead you’re telling folks (on another thread) that the ROI should due away with the tricolour and replace it with a white flag w/a shamrock??? Oh, you Plastic Paddy!!!!!!!!
“When a group claims the entirity of a region…”
Sam’s band’s name is ‘Sons of Ulster’, not “the ONLY sons of Ulster’, just SOME ‘sons of ulster’.
“one can ask if it is open to all son’s and if not…why not…. “
Same question goes for the Clonard Martyrs … now answer that … or do you not even know anyone from Clonard … or anywhere else in Belfast for that matter?
For the record, this is SlugFest speaking (as above). I tend to have very nationalist/republican leanings, but i have an extremely hard time reading your posts. You seem to have an extremely limited understanding of the NI situation and are ridiculously unsympathetic to the Unionlist and Loyalist communities. Can you not understand that attrocities happened on all sides? Can you not see the humanity in both communities???? Stop regurgitating what your parent taught you after their NORAID meetings and start thinking for yourself.
“Stop regurgitating what your parent taught you after their NORAID meetings and start thinking for yourself.”
Denis Donaldson certainly has a lot to answer for.
There is a very good reason why the Irish flag is GREEN, WHITE and ORANGE. We either live together or die together. Either way we will always be together.
posted by Kathy C
Hi all, It is true that many in the American Revolution were protestant. However, there were Catholics as well. In fact Charles Carrol was the only Catholic that signed the declaration of independence…but a Catholic did sign.
George Washington…back in Nov 5, 1771 reprimanded the troops in Cambridge Massachusetts for celebrating the anti-Catholic Guy Fawkes Day…Washington didn’t want to offend the French Catholics or the Catholics in the colonies …..I even found a web site you can check this out on
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/gwhtml/1775.html
and George Washingto wrote a letter to Roman Catholics in March 1790 thanking them for what they did in the American Revolution…George’s words,
“And I presume that your fellow-citzens will not forget theh patriotic part which you took in the accomplishment of their Revolution, anmd the establishment of their government; or the important assistance which they received from a nation in which the Roman Catholic faith is professed.”
http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?documentprint=396
As for bringing my parents into the dicussion…it reminded me of what is done on the school play ground…call someone’s parents a name….but fyi…my parents never went to a noraid meeting…
Now to the Green white and orange. Like I said on the other thread…it is a flag that groups people according to their religion…I would like to see aN Irish flag that doesn’t do that…that’s why I like the shamrock…the world over knows the shamrock is an Irish symbol….
And another fyi….I’m Catholic as well as a Daughter of the American Revolution…fancy that eh?
Posted by Kathy C
Hi all,
I forgot in the above to respond to the Clonard Martyrs comment. I don’t know whether they have a flute band…I thought flute bands just came and played at the commerations….I really can’t comment on a band I don’t know anything about..but the name doesn’t show that it is a large area of Ireland.
My point about Sons of Ulster….if you say that…then it implies it includes all sons of ulster…but the sons of ulster is a protestant group…ergo a more appropriate name would be something like Orange sons’ of Ulster, or Protestant sons of Ulster….that is all I was saying….
“These orangemen should not of been allowed in Dublin in the first place and as soon as all Northern prods are removed to britain the better” ”
This is not the view of Southerners other than a miniscule but vicious minority.
Brian Boru
Kathy C
As Americans go, I find your posts extremely nauseating…. the SOL flute band can be a fully inclusive band on account that both men and womwn can join it…now naturally if not only non Protestants but non Orange men/women wanted to join them, well Freud probably would have had a name for them.
Your atempts to distort your own country´s history is disturbing…Most modern Historians don´t look at American war of independence as a revolution, but more of a colonial retreat…Most of the grudges aginst the British where about money and hey don´t forget many who fought where actually first generation settlers.
Of course some Catholics contributed, how else could they have got French support, but your attempt to turn it into a Catholic revolution is laughable.
American was built largely by Ulster Presbyterians, who travelled far and wide in your vast country. The Irish Catholics on the other hand came much later and stopped at the first port of call (New York / Boston) and set up their own little anti british communities.
posted by Kathy C
Hi all,
Doctor Who, I didn’t say the American Revolution was a Catholic Revolution…I just commented that there were Catholics in the Revolution after there were comments Catholics weren’t in it.
As for Americans not referring to the war of Independence as the American Revolution is incorrect. Even General Motors the car company is trying to get more Americans to buy their cars and are marketing them as the New American Revolution….cashing in on the pride Americans feel about THE American Revolution and trying to have it link up to purchases of their GM cars. Hope you’re feeling better…. ;o)
posted by Kathy C
Kathy C
What in beelzebubs balls has GM motors and their new sales drive got to do with the American War of Independence.
What I said was that most modern historians would argue that Independence was not a Revolution…but more of a colonial retreat.
Also not one post states that Catholics didn´t take part..it is you that is making the religion of the participants an issue and it just so happens most of the leaders and founding fathers of America where of Ulster Scots stock.
Of course what happened next in your country regarding slavery and the extermination of the indigenous peoples there is another story.
Perhaps you should concentrate on the rights and issues of the under privillaged black populations in inner city projects before making comment on issues in Northern Ireland.
Despite the setback in convincing the unionists that we’re not all bad- i’m sure a lot of them saw that it was only a small minority of rioters, and that most people respect their right to march. don’t give up hope- we’ll soon trick enough of them into voting for a United Ireland based on the concept of equality and fairness. then we’ll deport the fuckers
“America was built largely by Ulster Presbyterians, who travelled far and wide in your vast country. ”
They may have built America but they didnt half balls up the 6 counties. Perhaps the dregs stayed behind in the auld country.
The one after Scotland that is.
To Kathy_c
One of grievances against King George from the revolutionaries was that he had emancipated the Catholics in Quebec:
“Also the act passed in the same session for establishing the Roman Catholic religion in the province of Quebec, abolishing the equitable system of English laws, and erecting a tyranny there, to the great danger, from so total a dissimilarity of religion, law, and government of the neighboring British colonies, by the assitance of whose blood and treasure the said country was conquered from France”
One of the revolutionaries first acts was an attempted invasion of Canada, which failed as the local Catholics, unsurprisingly, remained loyal to Britain. An 1812 invasion failed too, as the Catholics in Canada were wary of the anti-catholic early US, and the US militia were unreliable.
So to present the early US history as some sort of joint catholic-protestant cause is a big mistake. Just like deliberately provocative statements about the Sons of Ulster’s possible membership qualifications.
DK
> So to present the early US history as some sort of joint catholic-protestant cause is a big mistake.
I could not agree more.
And that’s why the election of JFK in 1960 was a real break-through. His religion was a big election issue but unlike Al Smith in 1928, he was able to overcome (just) what was a big electoral handicap in a lot of swing states in the South and Mid-West.
Its only in the last thirty years that the No-Nothing tradition (the politics of No Popery) , which had a very long history in US politics, finally disappeared as an important political factor. Although there are still whiffs of it in the anti-immigrant politics of So. Cal and the border states.
Kathy_C’s grasp of US history and politics seems to be as shaky as her knowledge of the history and politics of Ireland, North and South. Well intentioned but very muddle headed.
J McConnell
Posted by Kathy C
Hi all,
In the US we have PBS television which is 348 public television stations and approx 90 million people watch it each week. The PBS programs are used in schools.
They had a series called, “Liberty, the American Revolution.”
http://www.pbs.org/ktc/liberty/index.html
and the series as the title suggest was all about the AMERICAN REVOLUTION….and it provided teachers aids to help teach the AMERICAN REVOLUTION in schools to supplement the series.
It is being taught as the AMERICAN REVOLUTION…not being taught as colonial retreat.
Why I mentioned the GM add campaign was to highlight even advertisers are cashing in on the mind set of AMERICAN REVOLUTION. Whether it is the AMERICAN REVOLUTION where we beat the british and won our independence or the AMERICAN REVOLUTION in the industrail age….one of the largest corporations in the world opted to advertise their cars based on AMERICAN REVOLUTION…and contect to people based on their concept of AMERICAN REVOLUTION.
Also, I never stated the AMERICAN REVOLUTION was
a joint protestant catholic cause. I stated Catholics fought in the AMERICAN REVOLUTION and Gen. Washington was mindful of not offending the Catholic fighters.
Kathy
Using the title of a PBS series to back up ones position is, well, a bit weak.
The usual term used in US history books is either the War of Independence or, in older book, the Revolutionary Wars. Although considering the political questions that were being fought over, and the political rhetoric used, it might be more accurate to call it “The English Civil War – Round II”.
The political rhetoric of the American Colonies in the 1760′s and 1770′s had more in common with Britain in the 1640′s than France in the 1780′s and 1790′s, which was the first real revolution in the modern sense.
What happened in the American Colonies was about as revolutionary as the Glorious Revolution of 1688. A shuffling of the ruling class but little beyond that.
Now the election of Jackson in 1828, that *was* a political revolution. It unleashed political forces that directly lead to the disaster of 1861.
J McConnell
Kathy C,
A couple lifetimes ago, before I bought back my soul, I was in the advertising business: tv commercials, media planning, the delicate tweaking and twisting of words … the works. I always wondered if there were any suckers out there who actually believed what they were being sold, and sadly, you have just proven that there are …
“PBS television … approx 90 million people watch it each week. “
NOT. Per the actual PBS website, “PBS serves nearly 90 million people each week”. Kathy, in this sense, ‘serves’ simply means that ’90 million people’ have access to pbs … in other words, it’s a channel on their tv remote. What’s more, that ’90 million’ is based on the assumption that each household has 2.5 people (well, that’s the # it used to be … back when I didn’t have a soul and all) in it … in other words, you then need to divide 2.5 into 90 mill. Mind you, pbs is the best damned channel in America that few people actually watch… but that’s another story.
“They had a series called, “Liberty, the American Revolution … and the series as the title suggest was all about the AMERICAN REVOLUTION….”
Wrong again. Had you done further research (or watched the dang thing when it first came out years ago, which I did), you would have found out that the series actually deals with the 25 years leading UP TO the ‘revolution.’
“It is being taught as the AMERICAN REVOLUTION…”
What’s this??? The American education system may not, after all, be giving a truthful and comprehensive account of the formation of our country???? Hmmm … I wonder if that’s why America’s students are ranked waaayyyy below a myriad of other countries when it comes to such silly things as world history and mathematics.
“Why I mentioned the GM add campaign was to highlight even advertisers are cashing in on the mind set of AMERICAN REVOLUTION … ….one of the largest corporations in the world opted to advertise their cars based on AMERICAN REVOLUTION”
And now we’re back to the whoring and pimping of America. Yes, middle America clings desperately to the ‘American Revolution’, as well as the ‘if you don’t like it, leave’ and, oh, yeah, that God blesses our country over any other. Go GM, go! Sell your cars not on quality or gas efficiency, but on the desperate xenophobic hopes of frightened people … people too damn scared to find out what the world really thinks of them when they’re just trying to put food on the table and keep their kids clothed. Go GM, go! And good on you, Kathy, for backing GM up!
Postscript: the 6:05 post atttributed to Doctor Who was actually written by SlugFest.
posted by Kathy C
Hi all,
Sorry I missed typed the web site….it is:
http://www.pbs.org/ktca/liberty/index.html
or you can go do a web search type in American Revolution and it will come up as “Liberty, The American Revolution.”
J. McConnell, I don’t feel when 348 tv stations air a show that states the American Revolution was called just that…the American Revolution is a weak point…it demo’s that in the US the American Revolution is being taught as just that…the American Revolution. Now, what makes history and political anylsis great is people can study and come up with their own theories and ideas why certain things happened. Yet, that does not negate the fact….those events are being taught and identified by the phrase….AMERCIAN REVOLUTION. have a great day.
Cathum
You could be right there, you could also say the same about the Catholic Irish who didn´t make it to New York / Boston.
Kathy C
It seems we are talking at cross-purposes here.
I did a quick dig and discovered that the only place that commonly uses the term ‘American Revolution’ are grade school and high school history books, and t.v programmes targeted at that particular audience. Which is why I have not run into the term very often. I tend to get my history from academic and scholarly books rather than grade school text books.
I also had a quick look at the PBS site about the TV program. I have vague memories of watching a bit of the first episode on KQED in the late ’90′s but as it was all rather high school fluff I soon lost interest. Not a patch on the American Experience documentary series which is t.v history at its finest.
J McConnell
posted by Kathy C
Hi all,
J McConnell, I’m glad you looked at the site so you would know what I was referring to…thank you for that. Also, I’m glad that you understand that American children are taught in grade school and high school that it was the AMerican Revolution and since the majority of people do not go on for further historical anylsis of American history in colleges and major in other subjects other than American history…the vast American public think of the war as and in terms of…the American Revolution. Thanks again and have a great weekend.
posted by Kathy C