Blogging the riots…
The eye witness accounts have been stunning from Back Seat Drivers and Dossing Times, along with DT’s great capture of the scene ripped from the City Council’s traffic cameras. Take a bow lads!
Strong shot from Flickr of a Guard apparently about to be hit with a brick – with, bizarrely, a Villa fan in foregrond). More from Celtic Freedom; Chris Logan thinks RSF are a disgrace. Dublin Met Blogs has loads of stuff.
Kevin was on the ground too. Thesme feels sick. Chris is annoyed.
Beano says, so much for a new Ireland. The big man is disgusted. Richard calls it a wake up call for the State.
El Blogador with a round up of reaction. Citizen photos here, here, here, here, here, here and here.
Update: BBC video of the riot. And some very good stuff on Indymedia.
Topic: Politics, Society and Culture
Region: Ireland
this is all hysterical crap – go to link below to see a real riot in dublin and play the video – what happened today was a mere skirmish being blown up by over-exitable and stupid media
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/18/newsid_2514000/2514727.stm
“The revolution will be televised.”
great post alfredo. still, “skimirish” or not, what happened today was still disgraceful and could be important in the long-term.
13 people were charged tonight in relation to the riots including, according to RTE, four non-nationals. So the question arises can you be a non-national and a nationalist at the same time.
Well Henry maybe some of them are just anarchists. I suspect so. Note all the anarchist black flags present.
I think goes to prove the Sinn Fein/IRA don’t want a PROD about the place.
A real own goal – hows Gerry and Martin going to explain this in Washington ?
Headlines on CNN “IRA supporters disrupt parade, attack police”
JC
SF say they told their supporters not to come out against the parade. Republican SF, a splinter group set up in 86 was involved though. J Collins could you kindly avoid lumping everyone together.
Brian Boru
Hey thanks for the compliment. the dossing times duely bows
This post probably belongs in here more than anywhere else.
These pictures sickened and shocked me more than anything else I’ve seen today.
It’s some poor asian guy being dragged out of a Centra supermarket and set upon by the mob.
The pictures can be found here
http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~z/today/
I found the link at indymedia here.
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74504
This is yet another example of how the camera can misinterpret reality, [toppling of Baghdad statue is another] the photos show an empty street with debris all over the place, making it resemble a war zone. What has been overlooked was much of this area was a building site.
The right to protest is a test of any democracy, I suppose we will now get the normal over-reaction from certain politicians and their pals within the media.
The guards contained any violence and there were a lot fewer broken heads than when the British army and RUC policed similar minor scuffles up north. This sort of ruff and tumble is unfortunately part of the democratic process and as long as it only happens on rare occasions in all honesty there is little harm in it. Better to have the odd public punch up to let off steam than people taking to the hills or doing their trick or treat routine.
As good old Corporal Jones used to say, “Don’t panic’. Oh and by the way lets have no more of it was down to Gerry and his peacemakers etc, nor what will the war criminal Bush make of it. Such questions are just not relevant. A bunch of Unionists organized a provocation down in Dublin, and the day turned out as they intended. Thus to say this puts any republicans on the spot is plain daft. The guards protecting Ulster Unionist, as it should be but never the less a sight to behold.
Still we are moving forward, there was a time not that long ago when Unionists would not venture across the border to that city of Sodom and Gomorra down south. Now they are demanding their democratic right to protest within the ROI and thanking the guards for protecting them. Turned out alright on the night!
Best regards.
This is yet another example of how the camera can misinterpret reality, [toppling of Baghdad statue is another] the photos show an empty street with debris all over the place, making it resemble a war zone. What has been overlooked was much of this area was a building site.
If it’s anything, I walked down O’Connell Street at 8am this morning, observant as ever. The post-riot pictures stilled shocked me.
That’s the first time I’ve ever been disappointed by a post from Mickhall.
Still though most of the building site is now out on the street.
Alfredo,
while recognising what you say, I must state that mickhall, is by a country mile, rhe best and most productive contribtutor to this site.
Though, he also is a sniping bastard.
posted by Kathy C (I say this because my posts are being credited to other people)
Hi all,
The pictures were very interesting and thanks for putting them on this site for people to see.
The british empire put down the Easter rising of 1916 and members of those who promote the british way of life (unionist/orange order members) came to strut their stuff in the very same area of the Irish rising during the year the Irish Republic plan to have it’s army march in the capital to celebrate the Rising.
I’m sure there were many in the press and Irish politians back in 1916 that felt those who stood up to the british were evil. I feel those who stood up to the british orange way of life…back in 1916 were hero’s. The pictures of the streets look simmilar today as back then. Times move on…but so much stays the same.
posted by Kathy C no matter what the name is that follows (personally I think it is to keep people from knowing what Kathy C has to say)
(Brian Boru post)
This kind of puts a new perspective on things:
“Loyalists may carry Dublin bomber pictures
by Ciarán Barnes
23/02/2006
Organisers of a loyalist march through Dublin have said they cannot guarantee that images of a man accused of murdering 26 people in the city will not not be displayed during the demonstration.
Speaking to Daily Ireland yesterday, Love Ulster organiser Willie Frazer said: “I can’t give a guarantee a photograph of Robert McConnell will not be carried because I wouldn’t be against anyone carrying Robert’s photograph.”
Robert McConnell was a dual member of the Ulster Defence Regiment and Ulster Volunteer Force. He murdered scores of Catholics in the 1970s.
He played a part in the 1974 Dublin and Monaghan bombings in which 33 people died. Twenty-six died in the Dublin attack.
Speaking in 1999, John Weir, a former member of the RUC with whom Robert McConnell went on murder missions, implicated him in a further eight killings.
The mass murderer was shot dead by the IRA in 1976. Images of him have been carried at previous rallies organised by Mr Frazer’s victims group Families Acting for Innocent Relatives.
Despite the weight of evidence linking McConnell to at least 41 sectarian murders, Mr Frazer defended the killer’s reputation.
“Anybody I know who knew Robert would say there is no way he was involved in anything. He was involved with the security forces and he helped the SAS and stuff like that but a lot of people would say that was just part of his job,” said Mr Frazer.
Relatives of those murdered in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings criticised Mr Frazer. Margaret Irwin of the Justice for the Forgotten group said his defence of McConnell was “very insensitive”.
She said: “We have very good information that McConnell was involved with the gang who we are convinced carried out the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.
“We believe McConnell was involved in up to 55 murders. There can be no doubt he was heavily involved with loyalist paramilitaries.”
Up to 1,000 loyalists and six bands are expected to take part in Saturday’s Love Ulster parade along O’Connell Street. The march is to start at 12.30pm and is expected to last one hour.
Orange Order members will take part but will not wear sashes or collarettes.
Yesterday morning, Republican Sinn Féin held a press conference in Dublin at which the party unveiled plans to protest against the march. The Continuity IRA has also vowed to disrupt the parade.
Love Ulster held a victims rally in Belfast last October. The event was widely criticised because it failed to give any mention to those who had suffered at the hands of loyalists and the state.
Loyalists paramilitaries such as Ulster Defence Association leader Jackie McDonald helped launch the Love Ulster campaign last September. “
(Brian Boru)
This story appeared in the Daily Ireland. I would like to know if Unionists on this forum condemn the remarks by Willie Frazer, and in particular the refusal to agree not to carry a photo of this vile man.
Great post Brian Boru.
Unionists do not generally agree with you BB, I do, though.
Willie Frazer dos not speak for me any more than the rioting morons speak for Nationalism or SF.
Its a pity some other victims such as Ailen Quinton, do not similarly distance themsleves from Frazer. I note that Alan McBride, for instance, is not associated with LU.
TAF: Those pics were shocking, faces clearly identifiable of the racist bastards kicking that poor man. I hope the Gardai throw the book at the racist feckers. A tricolour in the middle of that, too. Utterly shameful. Perhaps a few live rounds a la Bloody Sunday might have been appropriate after all.
Well then Brian Boru by your same reasoning you wouldn’t allow Irish Republican marches through London or Birmingham or Manchester or indeed through Belfast city centre for that matter either.
Is that what you believe?
That above post was from me.
C’mon Slug sort this out will ya!
– HARRY FLASHMAN -
(Comrade Stalin post)
Brian Boru, I’m not a unionist but I completely condemn the remarks of Frazer concerning this paramilitary-linked individual.
However I also condemn your rather shallow and pathetic attempts to justify the rioting yesterday. I also find the line you’re taking to be pretty hypocritical. IRA murderers are commemorated all the time by republicans during marches and demonstrations. The Sinn Fein website sells tacky pins and badges of people who drove a war during which civilians were murdered in this country.
love ulster is about those who have been murdered at the hands of catholics
i know there are many on this board who refuse to acknowledge this fact but catholics waged a war to cleanse NI of all things british including british citizens. They were supported by the southern government who provided arms and a safe haven for the murderous scum
Unionist the Southern govt never armed the IRA. There was an Arms Trial in the 70′s into allegations that some ministers (Haughey, Blaney and Boland) had tried to arm the IRA in NI. There is no serious suggestion that such attempts succeeded. On the safe-haven point, we have a written constitution and the power over issues like extradition is clearly in the ambit of the courts rather than the executive, unless there is an extradition treaty. Polls in the South always showed the vast majority against the IRA in the North,, whatever spin you want to put on it.
“However I also condemn your rather shallow and pathetic attempts to justify the rioting yesterday. I also find the line you’re taking to be pretty hypocritical. IRA murderers are commemorated all the time by republicans during marches and demonstrations. The Sinn Fein website sells tacky pins and badges of people who drove a war during which civilians were murdered in this country.”
I am not justifying the rioting at all. I condemn it but I am simply saying that there is fault on both sides here. LU is more than just a victims group. Read the FAIR website on its demonisation of the Catholic church. LU invited Loyalist paramilitaries to take part in their Belfast march.
Someone talked about terrorist photos on Republican marches. Naturally I condemn the inclusion in marches of anyone who murdered innocent civilians, which obviously includes the PIRA, RIRA, OIRA, CIRA and INLA. Of course, if you are including the 1916 rebels and those who fought in the War of Independence I would not consider them to be terrorists as they generally did not target civilians.
BB “the Southern govt never armed the IRA.” This is unproven and disputed. The arms trial collapsed because it could not be proven that those charged were not working under government sanction.
I have always maintained that this issue should be top of the list for public inquiries, ahead of issues like the Cavan/Monaghan bombing. If the Lynch government managed to get arms to the IRA 9or indeed even tried to arm the IRA) it puts a very different contex on what happened later.
If it was rouge elements within FF (the Blaney and Boland factions) this also need to be known.
brian bru,
how many extraditions have there been from the south to the UK?
Come on guys, try and keep on-topic
I for one dont doubt that Dublin and RoI opinion on Unionism wasnt represented by the rioters yesterday.
Neither Willie Frazer, nor Jeffrey represented any Unionist like me either.
I think public opinion in Dublin will build to insist that the government, whatever past FF may or may not have done, provide an audience or an invite for a future demo (at which the nature of Loyalism as something civil or something nasty may or may not appear.)
I would much have preferred the negative aspects of LU attitudes to have caught the headlines yesterday. For example, they were planning to carry placards of a man they claim to be a victim, but who in fact murdered anything between 40 and 50 people. They didnt get the chance to show themselves up.
Now I see some posters claiming that the *few* who demonstrated were in fact ecapsulating the spirit of the *few* involved in 1916. Such attitudes are evidence of criminal insanity.
Neither Willie Frazer, nor Jeffrey represented any Unionist like me either.
Then you feel no grievance???
Hmmmm where have you been the in the last year?
I personally have no respect for wee Jeff and also find Frazers politics irritable but I still repect them for campaigning on behalf of Unionist/Protestant victims!
Unionist, I don’t know. But it’s a decision for the courts. Unlike the UK, we have a written constitution so the government can’t just do what it likes. So it’s not as simple as saying “oh the govt should extradite them”.
Just when you thought it was safe to march down O’Connell Street…….
Fermanagh, would you categorise Robert McConnell as a “victim”?
FU:
I feel no grievance, I am not bitter, I am not bigotted, therefore I have no time for LU nor they for me.
Neither it would appear do those who have every right to feel grievance, such as Alan McBride. Why do you think Frazer was refused a personal protection weapon?
strange how no nationalists on this board feel any empathy at all to those who wanted to march in Dublin, whose loved ones were murdered by catholics over the last 30-40 years
We do feel empathy with IRA victims, but the mixing it with support for paramilitarism on the part of some of the supporters of the march is a different matter. The categorisation of Loyalist terrorists as “victims” is offensive to innocent people who never killed anyone but ended up killed anyway.
Fermanagh, would you categorise Robert McConnell as a “victim”?
No.
I have read a lot about this apparent poster… any proof, pictures etc.? Just as stupid wee jeff is he isnt that slow….
Now staying on the topic of victims campaigners…. what about Raymond McCartney?? Murderer of 2 innocent men including a RUC man…. yet he is very much so involved in campaigning on behalf of the Bloody Sunday victims! Whats your opinion of him?
I feel no grievance, I am not bitter, I am not bigotted, therefore I have no time for LU nor they for me.
Neither it would appear do those who have every right to feel grievance, such as Alan McBride. Why do you think Frazer was refused a personal protection weapon?
!!!
I have to ask you….. are you even a Unionist?
Can you not see what is happening all around you!
Can you honestly say you had no reservations about the OTR bill…. it may be gone now, but it will be back.
Bigoted…. so if your a victim of Republican violence your bigoted?? If you ask me, you are a disgrace.
Why he was refused a personal protection firearm.. I have no idea, but no doubt he has acquired other means of protection.
“Can you not see what is happening all around you! ”
Yes, I can. I can see bitterness without reason, exploited by political leaders without a strategy or a genuine concern for my country or the coming generation. The past is done. The path being pursued by LU and the DUP will only create more victims. And thats where they would feel most comfortable -with war. But Paisley is 80 this year. Some are more comfortable with revenge, and the bitterness that consumes Frazer et al.
Not me, not my daughter, not the next generation, whether it stays here or moves away.
Frazer was refused a PPW due to his very close assocation with paramiltaries, not my words, but a judge. he preys on the malignant aspect of victimhood, that seeks to offer revenge in terms of wrecking and preventing change. He is not doing the work of Christ.
If you must know LU has cross party support, the Deputy Leader of the Official Unionists was also in attendance yesterday along side with wee jeff… This is a matter that Unionism can unite on
path being pursued by LU and the DUP will only create more victims
Have you a problem with victims?? Have you a problem with Unionists expressing their anger in peaceful methods??
BTW just out off interest, I presume you either dont vote or go alliance?
Brian Boru,
According to some RSF supportrs on the ground, many Provo supporters were amongst the ranks of thugs yesterday.
Unionism achievd the politicisation of SF and the destruction of the IRA arsenal. Trimble achieved something no Unionist leader since Craig could have imagined. (and even he talked with Collins)
Then….Paisley gets the votes and refuses to accept what he didnt actually achieve.
If being a Unionist means that I have to deny a role in government to democratically elected politicians and that no nationalist or Republcian is fit for government, then no, Im not a Unionist.
But the Union is no longer under threat from anyone Green, but Hain-Orange. None so blind as cant see that.
Who I vote for is actually none of your business but there was a quick flash of me on today’s Politics Show.
“I would like to know if Unionists on this forum condemn the remarks by Willie Frazer, and in particular the refusal to agree not to carry a photo of this vile man.”
Brian Boru,
Do you PSF/PIRA be calling for their supporters not to carry photographs of the Hunger Strikers during the big commenorations this year?
Some of those “victims”, were equally as “vile” asb anyone whose picture MAY (a Daily Lieland rumour?) have been on display yesterday.
If being a Unionist means that I have to deny a role in government to democratically elected politicians and that no nationalist or Republcian is fit for government, then no, Im not a Unionist.
If you actually read comments properly you would actually see your above comment has no relevance to this thread, we are talking about victims and the rights of their campaigners.
If you must know I only asked about your voting preference purely down to the fact that I hope you have no connection to main stream Unionist parties for your views on victims are shameful.
“According to some RSF supportrs on the ground, many Provo supporters were amongst the ranks of thugs yesterday.”
They are opposed to the peace-process and would say that to stir up trouble.
“Do you PSF/PIRA be calling for their supporters not to carry photographs of the Hunger Strikers during the big commenorations this year?”
Those of them who were killers of civilians should not be eulogised I accept that. Bobby Sands was jailed for being in a car with a gun, not for actually killing someone.
I think its rather strange that when I respond to a question, that I am criticised for going off-topic? I dont think I’ll respond to you any more. As for *shameful*, perhaps you could explain how marching with Orange bands and UDA men in Dublin was showing respect to genuinely innocent victims?
I think this planned march was shamefully exploitative in exactly the way Frazers use of victimhood was outlined in my post above.
Had it gone ahead perhaps Danny K could have relived gerry Fitts experience in Oct 68? He could have got a clean shirt in Dunnes, €6?
At least buying a new shirt would have meant the visit was worthwhile.
bobby sands was an IRA terrorist whose death should be celebrated by all unionists, one less murderous sucm to worry about.
if only all of them starved slowly to death then NI would be a better place
“good post Brian”
Gopaddy,
Do you still subscribe to your viewpoint, expressed only this morning, that:
“You shower have dictated the rules for long enough. If you don’t like it in the country which you’re occupying then fuck off to the mainland, I wonder if they will welcome yer drums and flutes there. I doubt it. Ye are a race without a country. Give up.”
You don’t want a United Ireland, do you?
Brian Boru,
“Those of them who were killers of civilians should not be eulogised I accept that. Bobby Sands was jailed for being in a car with a gun, not for actually killing someone.”
No…wait a wee minute.
Bobby was a member of a movement which blew hundreds of innocent (Irish) civilians to pieces, tortured hundreds of innocent (Irish) civilians and disappeared innocent (Irish) mothers….and that’s just for starters.
Kathy C,
“The british empire put down the Easter rising of 1916 and members of those who promote the british way of life (unionist/orange order members) came to strut their stuff in the very same area of the Irish rising during the year the Irish Republic plan to have it’s army march in the capital to celebrate the Rising.
I’m sure there were many in the press and Irish politians back in 1916 that felt those who stood up to the british were evil. I feel those who stood up to the british orange way of life…back in 1916 were hero’s”
You don’t really want a United Ireland, do you?
I doubt you cherish all the chioldren of the nation equally either.