Nationalists condemn Dublin rioters…
Alban Maginness: “It is disturbing that marchers have been prevented from peaceful demonstration. This action of extreme republicans simply plays into hands of those of unionist right who cannot conceive unionist rights being upheld in a New Ireland.” Gerry Adams: “There is no justification for what happened this afternoon in Dublin. Sinn Féin had appealed to people to ignore this loyalist parade and not to be provoked by it. Our view was that it should not be opposed in any way and we made that clear”. Sinn Fein Dail Deputy Sean Crowe:
“Willie Frazier and the Love Ulster campaign came to Dublin today to be provocative and get a reaction. Sinn Féin urged people not to be provoked and to stay away and the vast majority of Dubliners, including members and supporters of Sinn Féin, did just that. It is disappointing that a small number of individuals did exactly what Willie Frazier wanted. There is absolutely no justification for the disgraceful scenes, which occurred in the city centre this afternoon. I would call on those involved to end their confrontation with Gardaí immediately.”
Mick
Might as well note the other available quotes, so far – RTÉ report
Dermot Ahern statement below: links it to wider issues.
Statement by Minister for Foreign Affairs, Mr. Dermot Ahern on violent scenes in Dublin – 25th February 2006
·I condemn the scenes of violence witnessed in Dublin today.
·All efforts to provoke sectarian conflict on our island must be vigorously opposed.
·To that end, I call on all political leaders to distance themselves from today’s actions and to roundly condemn all such efforts.
·There can be no place in modern Ireland for sectarian attacks, or efforts to exploit such attacks for political gain.
ENDS+++
25th February 2006
“One of the buses carrying them home was attacked by stone throwers as it approached the border town of Dundalk in County Louth.
Ulster Unionist, Michael Copeland, who was on board, said the rioters had nothing to offer society.”
A bus gets pelted because the people inside were unionist.
1.A free kick to all those unionists who regard the Republic as hostile.
2.how was the march going to promote the cause of victims in any case
Tiny – it has been remarked on before that they were marching as a protest to call on the Dublin government to hold an enquiry into he state support of the IRA. That seems to have been lost in a media referring to it as a “Love Ulster” march.
How are Unionists going to be involved in the aftermath, how do they want the Free State to react? (Rather than ‘its appalling’/'disengagement ‘ by the Unionists)
OFF-TOPIC:
Is it optimistic of me to consider a council of the Isles to take over from bipartisan Dublin/London pointless dialogue when Edinburgh and Cardif are going to have as good a voice as any, and promote a range of viewpoints with a desire for progress on (m)any issue(s) rather than a log jam and a holding of democracy to randsom by the DUP/Sinn Fein. Scotland and Wales have their own forms of devolved government who’s progress or lack of progress would give a breath of fresh air to the current agenda. Of course they may consider it an SEP (Someone Elses Problem).
A Wider Celtic conspiracy to replace the pan-nationalist agenda, it would be nice if Dublin could be a focus for people from Scotland and Wales, rather than for them to fall by default towards London.
Turloch
Love Ulster is an organization which would rather engage in silly stunts rather than work towards genuinely improving things and securing a permanent end to all violence in Northern Ireland. Why can’t unionists stop this nonsense and just sit down to all party talks ?
That said, the attacks on them are an outrage. Unfortunately, those attacks will make the LU silly agenda appear to have credibility.
I have said on this site that the problem in northern Ireland was driven by unionist bigotry. It looks like the Free state has a few bigots of their own.
The best thing would have been to ignore these “love ulster/hate taigs” marchers.
Now they have a bunch of free publicity and look like victims.
What about what the Dublin people want?
It’s not up to michael mcdowell to decide that the ORANGE ORDER march down our most historic street. The scenes in Dublin today were disgusting and although i don’t speak for the whole of Dublin i don’t think any dub wants these pretenders marching on our streets. KEEP THEM OUT.
Now they have a bunch of free publicity and look like victims.
I wouldn’t worry too much if I was you.Most of them have had family members killed by the IRA, but that hasn’t granted them victim status in the eyes of most Irish people, so I doubt todays events will.
“It’s not up to michael mcdowell to decide that the ORANGE ORDER march down our most historic street”.
Anon.
The Orange Order were not attempting to march down your “most historic” street.
The “Free State” – would these republican loonies ever get the message that the people of Ireland want nothing to do with their disgusting policies and that the country’s name is “Ireland”.
anon “It’s not up to michael mcdowell to decide that the ORANGE ORDER march down our most historic street.”
Actuallly it is. We have this thing called a “general electon” every 5 years (I know the concept of democracy is pretty new to some republicans) and we elect people to make decisions like this. If you don’t like them, you’ll get a chance to change the government next year, but EVERY party in the Dail has supported McDowell in this decision so best of luck trying to find someone who doesn’t support the right of free demonstration.
“It’s not up to michael mcdowell to decide that the ORANGE ORDER march down our most historic street”.
It is in fact. As the Minister responsible he is the one who has to make the decision. I don’t know of a single TD who objected to the decision either so it certainly had sufficient democratic legitimacy.
What was the democratic basis for the riot, the vandalism and the robbery that took place on our most historic street today?
Sinn Fein Dail Deputy Sean Crowe:
“Willie Frazier and the Love Ulster campaign came to Dublin today to be provocative and get a reaction.”
There you go.. no matter what unionists do to protest to highlight an injustice SF/IRA will always say it was to provoke a reaction.
Just remember those who attacked the police also had the option not to attack the police. Unfortunatly their bigotry was the main driving force behind theeir actions, this will always be the case.
Believe me, no unionist was surprised at the outcome. The poor old Irish it is always someone else to blame isn’t it? But not this time.
Republicans failed to be democratic and the Irish Government failed to let democracy take place, there you have both the government and the people of the republic of Ireland failed on all accounts.
Some say that a united Ireland has been set back many years/ Have I got news for you, unionists don’t want a United Ireland so it’s not going to happen and I believe that todays actions by the Irish in Dublin has cemented that belief.
from fair deal
Most of nationalist Ireland goes for clear condemnation while the Sinn Fein Dail Deputy does even not manage a condemnation followed by a but, he begins with blaming the Unionists.
Sinn Fein adopted a motion for engagement with the Unionist community and Gerry Adams highlighted it as one of five key strategic aims of republicanism. How do Sean Crowe’s comments fit with the policy and aims of the republican movement?
“How are Unionists going to be involved in the aftermath,”
Unionists will become the discreet blamehounds. Its all terible but…. Followed by others trying to turn the heat onto the Garda (whose only mistake was to think the threat came from the Love Ulster marchers).
“how do they want the Free State to react?”
It’s their country so they can react how they wish. They have their own laws and the expectation would be they enforce them.
Imagine that the majority of the people in NI decided to create a UI with the ROI.
Then imagine the negiations that would be required between London and Dublin to agree the following:
1. A new UI natinal flag.
2. A new UI national anthem.
3. A possible northern assembly based in Stormont.
4. A new UI education system.
5. Reducing the ‘Irish’ identity of the new UI, so as to accommodate increased ‘British’ identity in the new UI.
Imagine the riots that would take place if all these changes and many more were to take place so as to ensure that the new UI was equal for all the people of Ireland, including the Unionists.
Remeber a new UI would need to less ‘Irish’ and more ‘British’ to reflect the accommodation of Unionists.
I think its a bit rich for unionists to have a go at the shinners about todays events especially considering the half hearted condemnations during 6 days of loyalist destruction on the streets of Belfast following the Whiterock orange order parade last summer.
I wonder if any of the orange order members due to take part in today’s parade were on the Springfield Road last summer colluding and organising the mass street riots with loyalist paramilitaries.
If the orange order and those who attend and watch parades are happy and content with the sight of uvf/uda commemoration banners at parades and are happy to watch bands with paramilitary links, they can’t really complain about other lunatics doing the same thing
“Imagine that the majority of the people in NI decided to create a UI with the ROI.
Then imagine the negiations that would be required between London and Dublin to agree the following:
1. A new UI natinal flag.
2. A new UI national anthem.
3. A possible northern assembly based in Stormont.
4. A new UI education system.
5. Reducing the ‘Irish’ identity of the new UI, so as to accommodate increased ‘British’ identity in the new UI.
Imagine the riots that would take place if all these changes and many more were to take place so as to ensure that the new UI was equal for all the people of Ireland, including the Unionists.
Remeber a new UI would need to less ‘Irish’ and more ‘British’ to reflect the accommodation of Unionists.”
I could tolerate 1,2,3,4 but the ‘British’ identity should be for people themselves and not linked to the State. We are proud of our independence and don’t consider ourselves British.
I don’t accept that the majority of people or even a large % of the people would riot over these changes. These scenes today are almost unheard of in the South. They are a miniscule number of people (300). Don’t forget the 4.2 million who didn’t riot – including me. I resent being lumped in with the tiny number of did. Kindly stop doing that Unionists!
That last “Pete Baker7″ post was me, Brian Boru (Again).
These pictures sickened and shocked me more than anything else I’ve seen today.
It’s some poor asian guy being dragged out of a Centra supermarket and set upon by the mob.
The pictures can be found here
http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~z/today/
I found the link at indymedia here.
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74504
I don’t know who these people think they are representing, but maybe we can all agree that we need to do something about the bastards?
Bertie condemns republican violence in Dublin City Centre eh? Wouldn’t have wanted him on my side in 1916. Bertie, when people claim sovereignty over part of your country, you resist. When they come and expect apologies for that resistance they really are dreaming. Get off your West Brit lackey knees and start campaigning for a united Ireland – the aggregate will of the majority of the population in the island in case you’ve forgotten (you didn’t have the guts to put ‘Who wants a united Ireland?’ on the Good Friday Agreement ballot paper did you, just in case the punters voted yes). FF the republican party – yes, sure you are Bertie, when you prop up a sectarian head count six county statelet.
Posted by Kathy C no matter what name is on the bottom ;o(
Hi all,
Finbar…I agree with you! I stated on another thread that I’m sure there were many in the Irish Press and Irish politicans who were against the Easter Rising of 1916 and those who stood up to the british….
in many ways those people who opposed the unionist/orange order from marching in Dublin have a point…it is simlilar to Jews and Poles not wanting a neo nazi group from marching on the streets of the Warsow Ghetto. …
or the KKK marching in Harlem….it is morally wrong and I think the orange orader members/unionist coming down to march in Dublin is also morally wrong….
Posted by Kathy C no matter what name comes after this…and it is funny that no one else seems to be having this problem…just me Kathy C
I really feel the need to respond to the last two posts (whoever wrote them !).
I am not a supporter of Willie Frazer, the DUP, the OO etc etc. However, I am an Irish person living in Belfast who is happy to remain part of the British family. Yes, I am Irish and I do not want Northern Ireland to be united with the RoI.
The point that there should be a UI because a majority on the whole island wants this is nonsense. A huge majority on the whole island supported the GFA in a democratic referendum and therefore accepted that NI would remain part of the UK as long as a majority within NI wished it to be so.
Irish Republicans need to wake up to the fact that the Irish are not a homogenous grouping – there are different groups of Irish people with a very different view on our relationship with GB.
To draw analogies between extreme loyalists and the Nazis or the KKK is stupid and those who make such statements are as blinkered and narrow minded as the people they criticise.
G-man
I am also struck by the irony that Irish republicans, who apparently support a UI, criticise Ulster people for parading/protesting in Dublin.
G-man
Love Ulster; Loathe sectarian six county statelets though
Republican Sinn Féin, 223 Parnell Street, Dublin 1
Telephone: 872 9747 Fax: 872 9757
e-mail: s a o i r s e @ i o l . i e
229 Falls Road, Belfast, BT12 6FB
Telephone 9031 9004 Fax: 9031 9863
Just in case anyone wants to vent their anger. I’ve already sent a couple of vicious e-mails. Maybe now some unwanted pizzas/taxis/piles of manure?
It’s weird that there are scumbags coming on here to directly justify (as “finbar” did) what was not a dignified counter-protest but a “let’s smash it up” session in Dublin city centre. The people behind this rioting are a tiny minority who have NO electoral representation in any part of Ireland. They are scum and they deserve a direct one-way trip to the ‘Joy.
However I’m getting a bit irked at the unionists who seem to be taking the easy route and going after the RoI. Folks, why don’t we have a hunger strike march down the Shankill and then you can tell me how loyalists would uphold a march that they disagreed with. I guarantee you that the scenes would be far, far worse than those seen in Dublin yesterday.
What is this FAIR crowd all about anyway ? Why are they only interested in Protestant victims of IRA violence ? Plenty of people who were not Protestants died as a result of IRA atrocities.
CS
Spot on, of course.
It is legitimate for any democratic observer to point out, however, that yesterday’s events illustrate perfectly the fundamental flaw in Irish Nationalism.
For the underlying idea is that sectarianism is caused by partition (ergo if we unify Ireland, suddenly sectarianism will disappear). This always was plainly nonsense. But it’ll be interesting to see how many people who bought that previously accept the nonsense of it now.
The six northeastern counties of Ireland are poisoned by sectarianism, separation and segregation, and this poison always has the potential to leak across the border or over the water. Whether they form part of the UK, the Irish Republic or Mali makes no difference, they would still be so poisoned.
Meanwhile for years I and my colleagues in the Alliance Party and other ‘Centre-Ground’ groupings have had vitriol thrown at them for having the guts to point to our poisoned reality and try to do something about it, without condition. Yet it is those politicians who talk simple solutions (such as ‘Get rid of the border’), as if they will remove that poison tomorrow, who are misrepresenting reality. It’s time they faced up to that, but I’m not optimistic…
IJP, it should be noted that there is no sectarianism in border counties with large Protestant minorities like Donegal.
In the South I mean.
(Brian Boru)
What is this FAIR crowd all about anyway ? Why are they only interested in Protestant victims of IRA violence ? Plenty of people who were not Protestants died as a result of IRA atrocities.
Time for you to play the another card now methinks…
Why only Protestants…. because it is lead by real Protestant victims, trust me, in Fermanagh alone there are a significant number of Republican groups who may have no connection loyalist violence whatsoever but still stride to use the ‘victims’ title to make a political point. PATHETIC
Meanwhile for years I and my colleagues in the Alliance Party and other ‘Centre-Ground’ groupings have had vitriol thrown at them for having the guts to point to our poisoned reality and try to do something about it, without condition
“part of post by IJP”
IJP,
IJP,
I do not mean to be offensive but IMO you and your party have set very firm conditions, i e the border remains and I have to say I feel if a small majority voted for reunification your party would oppose it or implode. So I’m not so sure you sit at all as comfortable as you wish to appear on your higher moral ground. What are you saying, all those who oppose the border are stoking sectarianism? The border was brought about by force of arms and against the wishes of a democratic majority and was then maintained by sectarianism. For you then to imply that those who continue to oppose that injustice are in someway the basis of the norths sectarianism is to put it mildly, a bit rich.
Now there is a strong argument to be put that reunification cannot be had by force of arms, not because to attempt it cannot be justified as it clearly can be.[if it is OK to partition the island by force of arms why can it not be equally correct to reunite it by force of arms] But because even if successful a reunited Ireland brought about by force of arms, like the northern statelet would not be worth a row of beans as it would contain a sizable, permanently politically disgruntled minority.
However by your refusal to understand the true bases of sectarianism in the north, surly you are making a healing of wounds and voluntary reunification an ever distant event by reinforcing b i g o t r y. It is to the credit of many Irish Republicans that they have come to realize you cannot build a nation once again if a sizable minority are co-opted into it against their will. Incidentally, many Republican’s have reached this conclusion due to there personal experience within the northern Statelet. After all they represented a disgruntled minority and look at the mayhem they achieved.
As to the events in Dublin yesterday, Im to old in the tooth having seen so called riots manufactured in to many parts of the world to get hot under the collar about it.
All the ingredients where present in O’Connell Street, the deliberately provocative March is given permission only to be called off at the last minute, the authorities just happen to fail to cordon off building works which allow certain protesters, who are determined to riot a ready supply of bricks, scaffold poles etc. The injured policeman who drops at the feet of at least ten TV camera crews, and finally the setting on fire of the odd Mercedes to provide the backdrop for the photo journalists to take the end of day snap of the 21st century policeman in full protective riot gear with the city supposedly burning behind them, the purpose being to put the fear of god into all those nice middle class people with a similar car in their drive whilst they eat their breakfast while reading the paper etc the following morning.
[PS they say in the 1930s the London Met had a horse which was trained to fall over on cue during street protests so as to gain sympathy for the police via the media.]
FYU:
What’s your point ?
Groups (coming from anywhere) whose objective is to emphasize the suffering of one group of victims over another are clearly working to an agenda outside of ensuring that all of the victims here are treated equally and are served justice equally. The shadowy involvement of the UDA in this grouping emphasizes this point.
Point is if you have:
A. A Woman whose son was murdered by republican unit, and with the only reason he was targeted out was he was a part time UDR man
B. A Woman whose son was killed by the Army while he was attempting to plant a device under a UDR’s mans car etc.
Now have you any bright ideas on how ladies A & B would be able to work together?
looks like the parade didnt even get to start……..GOOD, what the f@@k did they think was going to happen after loyalists have planted so many god damn bombs in dublin, did they think that we were going to make them bloody sandwiches….
See commenting policy – moderator
From fair_deal
Comrade Stalin
“Plenty of people who were not Protestants died as a result of IRA atrocities.”
For your information, at the first Love Ulster rally on the Shankill Road Willie Frazer’s speech raised the hundreds of Catholics that had died at the hands of the IRA.
bla bla bla, aint willie bloody brilliant. How many republican marches happen on the shankill road to commemerate the people who have lost their lives at the hands of unionist/loyalists. ask we willie if we can organise a parade on the shankill and tell him to ask the people to remain calm, you and i both know that this situation would never occur so what makes you think that you can give blood and thunder to stop republicans marching but would like to make a mockery of yourselves in dublin. Shame on you for using people who tragically lost their lives so you can make your sad little political stunt. You’s are sick in the head
If love ulster is about victims why did they have paramilitary linked bands at their parade on the shankill road.
exactly, and they had loyalist linked bands in dublin too, hypocrits
FYU :
Now have you any bright ideas on how ladies A & B would be able to work together?
Not easily. But what I know is that they can, and do. I attended a talk once do to with the community relations council, and one of the guys speaking was an individual whose wife had been murdered in the Shankill bomb. That individual has subsequently been closely involved in cross-community work and I believe he has even met some prominent republicans.
Is that easy ? No. But is it necessary ? Yes. Love Ulster and FAIR do not offer the solution to our problems in this country. Rather than justice, they want revenge. They have a right to be heard and they have a right to have their concerns addressed, but it would be foolish to think they are in any way serious about working to remove the causes of injustice in this country.
In fact this entire debate has in itself shown how hypocritical everyone in this country is. Republicans are sitting here telling everyone how much of a problem it is to have parades around the place with ex-paramilitaries, when they justify having people like Sean Kelly doing steward work whenever they’ve got their own thing going on. Unionists are always going on about how paramilitaries have no place in the future of the country, and there they are parading up and down with paramilitary-linked individuals in tow. This whole place is a complete farce unto itself.
fair_deal:
For your information, at the first Love Ulster rally on the Shankill Road Willie Frazer’s speech raised the hundreds of Catholics that had died at the hands of the IRA.
Then why does Frazer and his troop keep mentioning the word “Protestants” whenever they are on the road ? A point he may have, but the Peace People they certainly ain’t.
“hypocrits”
No….the hypocrits are those who get apoplectic at the thought of unionists having a peaceful parade in Dublin, but would seeth if a Hunger Strike march in the United Kingdom was denied later this year.
Presumably the Loyalists who attacked a recent Republican parade in Glasgow (a parade complete with bands linked to paramilitaries) were not bigoted sectarian scum.
I mean, what did the organisers think was going to happen in Glasgow….after republicans have planted so many god damn bombs in the UK, did they think that the loyalists were going to make them bloody sandwiches….
The well woven republican tapestry of “everything bigoted and sectarian is loyalist/unionist” is beginning to go threadbare at the edges. Soon it will be in tatters.
just as i thought u are an idiot hahaha, wats wrong? did the bus man not give you a refund?
The comments attributed to nonpartitionist% are mine (Realist).
Deaglan,
“just as i thought u are an idiot hahaha”
Any chance of playing the ball, not the man?
“wats wrong? did the bus man not give you a refund?”
If you mean the bus to Dublin, no – I was not in Dublin yesterday.
Whilst I have sympathy with some of the aims and objectives of the planned parade yesterday, there were aspects to it that I could not agree with, and which I found extremely hypocritical.
my point exactly, hypocritical!!! there was no good intentions on the march yesterday, they knew what would happen but they wanted to play the victims…….again.
After the Whiterock riots republicans ran to the high ground berating Unionism and Loyalism for the violence and the equivocal reaction to it. Was it opportunist or the sign they were rejecting militant street politics? All the whataboutery on here makes it clear it was opportunism.
FYU raised the point about the value of Unionists coming on here, I would have usually rejected the notion but the once good mix of open or opening minds of every political hue (with a small smattering of the usual loonies) who came on here for some sort of debate and examination of one anothers beliefs has faded away.
That mix seems to has been replaced largely by a set of ogra sinn fein types. They seem to believe that by repetition of provo process-speak and ad nauseam “Unionist are bigots/anti-peace” etc that the Unionists on here will have the scales drop from their eyes. We won’t.
We just get monumentally bored of listening to the same republican crap that hasn’t convinced one Unionist to consider supporting a UI ever nor ever will.
09.13 was from fair_deal
From the pen of PopeBuckfastXVI…
Disgusted with the partitionist thieving fascists in Dublin yesterday. I hope the march is rescheduled and takes place as soon as possible, and hopefully the Gardaí will borrow some water cannon from teh PSNI to deal with the idiots.
Nice way to show your love for your country, smashing up a bit of it, clowns. Nice way to show your support for reunification, by denying your fellow Irish people the right to demonstrate in the capital city. Fucking idiots…
Seems that the “riot” was an attempted couter-demo by RSF that was then hijacked by people with a grudge against the Guards, anarchists out to attack shops, hoodies out to loot said shops, and anyone else with a violent disposition and spare time on their hands.
The march & RSF demo may have started the problem, but the local non-aligned mentalists seem to have out-numbered the political mentalists, which is encouraging. Sort of.