March called off after violent clashes with Gardai
As both the BBC and RTÉ report, the march in Dublin, organised by Willie Frazer and FAIR, has been called off after a counter-demonstration by Republican Sinn Féin descended into violent confrontation with Gardai officers, the BBC report that journalists were also attacked. Irish blogs cover it too, with some photos at the Dossing Times – lifting an image from the Dublin traffic cameras site – and Back Seat Driver Dick O’Brien provides an eye-witness account
Again, this was Brian Boru (mine) post. Again I am “Yokel1″ on this thread.
“This was only 300 people from a movement with no electoral representation in the South. It is not representative of Southern opinion. We don’t like this march but we were willing to tolerate it in in the name of the right to free speech and freedom of expression. Kindly stop tarring us with the one brush. But then that is something Unionism is good at. “
shame on whoever allowed this march in the first place…
That would be the Minister. He was right to allow the march but by doing so he took on a responsibility to ensure it went ahead in safety. He has failed and should consider his position.
shame on those who condemn the rioters
The rioters are beneath contempt. The shame today is all theirs.
that post with the facts/opinions on it was by KEVYMC not COMRADESTALIN.
Prods are quite welcome in Dublin, Sam McAughtry, Gordon Wilson: a pack of Loyalist bigots complete with paramilitaries are not. Anyone surprised?
Yokel (4.28):
Oh so if you don’t like it you withdraw, maybe thats the problem with large parts of unionism
Actually I was referring to the fact that this once good site has now been overrun by nationalists and esp republicans.
In case you dont know, last year say this site was nearly split 50/50 but now for every 10 comments made 6 are republican 2 nationalist 1 unknown and then maybe 1 unionist…
Get my point yet??
You cannot have a good debating site with communities n the extreme majority… just doesnt work.
If you don’t stand up frankly you weaken your cause and yes I am telling you that
You want my opinion….. this parade shows the true colours of southern republicanism! The Unionist/Loyalist was (going to be) peaceful and respectful, both unionist parties were represented and FAIR was parading on behalf of victims…
People like Brian Boru who take every chance to mention Rossnowla really do annoy me, rossnowla is 1 exception in th Republic- mainly because its in a protestant area and the actual village is more of a caravan park with many of the tourists being Northern Protestants!
-Fermanagh Young Unionist-
‘There’s going to be plenty of time to get the detail on this in tomorrow’s paper and for days aferwards.’
Of course and the ‘people of Ireland’ will be able to digest the fact and lay the blame where it undoubtedly lies
FYU, thsi is not a debating forum, its a pontification forum, it always will be so just pontificate like the rest of us. Why be put off by the fact that some people are posting obssessed?
yokel 4.47:
Didnt understand a word of that….
Yokel
Actually, no. This should be an area for discussion.
The fact that most, currently, prefer to pontificate is, unfortunately, indicative of the general state of things.
”In case you dont know, last year say this site was nearly split 50/50 but now for every 10 comments made 6 are republican 2 nationalist 1 unknown and then maybe 1 unionist…”
Come on FYU — quit whinging and start debating/ pontificating. If there aren’t enough Unionist voices on Slugger for you, then your expertise is obviously needed. How boring would it be if this board was a Brit or a chucky love-in?
GLC.
Indicative of the country, the people in it anyway
Jo:
Actions speak much louder than words. I have to say that Henry has shown by far the most consistency of any of our commenters on this issue: even from before the Love Ulster demonstration was due to take place.
Try the Dossing Times and Back Seat Drivers links above for reports and pictures. There’s breeze blocks and planks and all manner of stuff being thrown.
There is not a Loyalist to be seen. Those are Dublin cops, ordinary Dublin citizens, and even their own people they are throwing bricks at, Dublin cars and Dublin polital parties.
Now there will be time for a calmer judgement on this when the smoke clears. But I don’t think you can blame the Love Ulster people for this anymore than you could blame Civil Rights protesters for being attacked at Burntollet.
Fermanagh Young Unionist, do you apportion any blame on the marchers themselves? The route of the march past the GPO and the Garden of Remembrance in particular seemed almost designed to provoke. If the rumour is true that ‘Love Ulster’ was going to carry a banner of a Loyalist bomber, then do you approve of this? I have heard this rumour on forums online but do not know if it is true or not.
“You want my opinion….. this parade shows the true colours of southern republicanism! The Unionist/Loyalist was (going to be) peaceful and respectful, both unionist parties were represented and FAIR was parading on behalf of victims…”
It does not show the true colours of southern republicanism. I am a constitutional republican and speak for most in saying these rioters did not represent me. They also attacked the Progressive Democrat offices btw. Not one Loyalist marcher was injured, unlike a number of Gardai who were taken to hospital. If RSF are representative of Southern republicanism then why do they have no elected representatives in the South, and why did their campaign against the GFA only attract 4.5% support in the referendum? They are a fanatical and tiny rump. You should get your facts straight.
I suppose then you consider the Mayday rioters some time ago in London to show the “true face” of Londoners too?
“People like Brian Boru who take every chance to mention Rossnowla really do annoy me, rossnowla is 1 exception in th Republic- mainly because its in a protestant area and the actual village is more of a caravan park with many of the tourists being Northern Protestants!”
Actually I think it’s a Catholic area.
i think that RSF did their part well proving to unionists that their culture is not welcome in a UI
“i think that RSF did their part well proving to unionists that their culture is not welcome in a UI ”
Not welcome to RSF maybe. But no-one supports RSF down here. LU could have chosen their route better.
“Indicative of the country, the people in it anyway”
No it wasn’t.
Actually Mick, the CR movement as a whole was widely opposed to the march on Derry in Jan 69 and saw it as provocative and sectarian in intent, emulating the OO claim to territory – which indeed Farrell and Devlin planned it to be…:)
What was the occasion for the violence other than the planned march then? Friday night hangovers?
I just want to say something to all our republican readers who are telling us that these marchers do not represent them.
You might like to think that you can pretend this has nothing to do with you, but this is a game of the lowest common denominator.
I consider myself a peaceful unonist who abhors all political violence, but the fact is that I will forver be associated and liked with the few hundred protestors who were involved in the Holy Cross protests, there actions are routinely and frequently thrown back at me as being the true face of unionism.
And just as everyone around the world who saw those pictures and saw those protests as the ugly face of unionsim, so it is with these riots today.
You might want to disassociate yourself from them, but the truth is you can’t.
the message will ring around the world that Dublin does not want a prod about the place, as clear and simple as that.
Rather than try and tell me that these riots do not represent you, you would better spend your time debating how you deal with those elements within your midst who have forever stamped their actions on the face of Irish republicanism.
As I look at the news images today, I get the uneasy feeling that we have a new Burntollet.
Don’t underestimate what has just happened.
Well, I’m not judging the rioters. We’ve seen as bad and much worse in the last two weeks in Belfast. If they wish to express their politics by ripping up Dublin then that’s their political perrogative.
I’m only arguing that you cannot pin the blame for the rioting on a small group of Unionist marchers (who by all accounts barely got off their buses), however provocative you might see it.
The decision to riot was entirely the rioters: a political action against the idea of Unionists marching in the Irish capital.
That post of 5:15 was by TAFKABO
Rent-a-Thug protesters / RSF / SF what really is the difference?
SF preaches to RSF for having gone down a road SF travelled on for years. SF has no credibility on this one as even doing the ‘right’ thing will show them to be hypocrites….
Rent-a-Thug, RSF and SF all seem to be swimming in the same cesspit They are an embarrassment to the very cause they claim to support. Go home bhoys!
MicK : Come off it.
I am arguing as are others are arguing (and I have exapanded the argument on JOBLOG) that these people have an image which is not identical with Unionism (a badge which incidentally I share) but with being anti-Agreement,
and concerned primarily with agitation on the streets to impede a political settlement in Northern Ireland -somethign which has a democratic mandate acorss this island and which they wish t frustrate. Thats why they got people riled. Not excusing it, but dont try and paint this planned march as anything other than sheer Provo-provocation. Theyre not Peace People 2!
Let’s knock on the head the idea that the GPO is some kind of shrine which would be violated by the sight of an Orange march. If it can stand looking across at the Ann Summers window than it can take the sight of Willie Fraser.
Even if the marchers wanted to provoke a reaction that’s no excuse for allowing yourself to be provoked.
The thing about 1916 was not the venue. It was the ideas.
The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and all of its parts, cherishing all of the children of the nation equally and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past.
The rioters spat on that concept today and don’t deserve to be called republicans.
Oh!and about the tricolour. Take it down from the mast Irish traitors. You don’t understand it.
Jo:
Alban Maginness: “It is disturbing that marchers have been prevented from peaceful demonstration. This action of extreme republicans simply plays into hands of those of unionist right who cannot conceive unionist rights being upheld in a New Ireland.”
Gerry Adams: “There is no justification for what happened this afternoon in Dublin. Sinn Féin had appealed to people to ignore this loyalist parade and not to be provoked by it. Our view was that it should not be opposed in any way and we made that clear”.
RTE’s Charlie Bird is one of the injured.
”If it can stand looking across at the Ann Summers window than it can take the sight of Willie Fraser.”
A truly terrifying juxtaposition Henry! Lol.
“Take it down from the mast Irish traitors. You don’t understand it.”
Excellent, Henry.
About 12:40pm today, I tried to explain to a Welsh rugby fan on O’Connell Street what was going on. He was understandably perplexed and said that although he didn’t claim to know much about Ireland he thought that the Orangemen marched up North, not Dublin. I explained that these Orangemen were marching in protest against recent ruling on the opening of Croke Park to rugby and soccer. I further explained that the counter demonstration was by a group of fans of Celtic FC who were not pleased with the prospect of their team being denied the opportunity of playing their foreign games in Croker.
He is now utterly confused.
This is similar to incidents in the late 1800s in NYC when a couple of hundred OO members and their families held July 12 parades and were attacked by thousands of Irish Catholics summoned from all over the city. The attacks were pre-planned, and quite vicious.
Quite rightly, the governor called out the military and many of the rioters were shot dead.
[Let's keep off-topic arguments off this thread - Moderator]
GLC
A truly terrifying juxtaposition Henry! Lol.
The P***ks in the window are fake…
Henry: Brill, lol.
Thank you, moderator.
same goes for you Jo – moderator
Pat Mc “… the route was provocative”. This is the route that almost all parades and demonstrations in Dublin follow. Whether it be Gay Pride, Trade Union demos etc. If you knew Dublin, you would know this.
USA
“This is similar to incidents in the late 1800s”
Going back a bit there aren’t ya?
It seems Dublin Republicans will not have a Prod about the place.
Maca:
Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.
‘Pat Mc “… the route was provocative”. This is the route that almost all parades and demonstrations in Dublin follow. Whether it be Gay Pride, Trade Union demos etc. If you knew Dublin, you would know this.’
Keith M, you have attributed a quotation to me that I did not make. If you read my posts properly you would know this.
“It seems Dublin Republicans will not have a Prod about the place. ”
I would question what % of the rioters were Southerners let alone Dubliners. From what Bertie was saying on RTE, some may have been Northerners.
Comrade Stalin (I think) : There was an undeniable element of flag-waving provocation about the Love Ulster parade. How much of an element this was is open to discussion.
The Love Ulster parade didn’t even get near the rioters, so much for “provocation”.
On the other hand several of the rioters had Irish tricolours.
I’ve seen a lot of organisations deny involvement in the rioting, however, it was most certainly organised. The loyalists were quickly forgotten (did they ever figure?) and the Gardai and the media were prime targets. I feel disgusted that we weren’t prepared for the scumbags, who were no better than looters. It’s a damning indictment on our country.
’1.there is no place for a unionist in the south , now we can understand the fall in protestant numbers since the state were formed
If your a prod youre not welcome, but if your a terrorist open arms await’
The above comment is unfortunately to be expected, but I very much disagree with the sentiment. The Gardai protected the loyalists/Protestants/Unionists. How many got hurt? The Gardai put themselves on the line for the loyalists, and fought against the enemies of the loyalists. So, no, Dublin and the republic is not a cold house for unionists.
As for the march – Willie and FAIR should be invited to return to the Real Capital (apologies to Cork) ASAP. Even if it means half the cops in Ireland need to be drafted in to allow a peaceful FAIR demonstration.
LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC AND TRUE REPUBLICAN IDEALS
KEVYMC
Welcome, and good post.
smcgiff
Jeffery Donaldson was on RTE news saying Irish republicans claim to want speaking rights in the Dail for all northern MPs but he as an northern MP wasn’t even able to speak outside the Dail.
Michael McDowell admitted that they had no idea what was planned and clearly it was planned. It seems the only intelligence he actually gets coincides with what is useful politically at the time. I think we’ll have to be a bit more sceptical about claims from him in future. That’s if he survives the debacle.
Charlie Bird was called an Orange bastard and beaten up by rioters.
“1.there is no place for a unionist in the south , now we can understand the fall in protestant numbers since the state were formed
If your a prod youre not welcome, but if your a terrorist open arms await”
Oh please. The numbers have been rising considerably in recent years and the 2006 census will confirm that. Again, I repeat, these 400 psychos are NOT mainstream republicans.
Predictably this whole thing has been ‘spun’ out of control by both groups of propagandists.The march was not directly attacked-the Gardai were.An accurate precis is that the Southern police force (at the cost of signicant casualties) defended an NI unionist demonstration against an attempted assault by NI republican intruders (as per Jeffrey Donaldson’s own admission)
‘Charlie Bird was called an Orange bastard and beaten up by rioters.’
I had to laugh when he said that. Did someone take offence to his overuse of St Tropez?
Predictably this whole thing has been ‘spun’ out of control by both groups of propagandists.The march was not directly attacked-the Gardai were.An accurate precis is that the Southern police force (at the cost of signicant casualties) defended an NI unionist demonstration against an attempted assault by NI republican intruders (as per Jeffrey Donaldson’s own admission)
This posting has been incorrectly attributed to ‘Conor’
-S.O.
Conor.
It’s surprising that you seem to have heard Jeffery claim that some of those involved in the trouble were from the north, yet didn’t hear the praise he heaped upon the ordinary people of Dublin and the Gardai.
I would hardly call this spinning out of control.
Credit where’s credits due.
I had to laugh when he said that. Did someone take offence to his overuse of St Tropez?
That was my poor joke.
smcgiff
Predictably this whole thing has been ‘spun’ out of control by both groups of propagandists.The march was not directly attacked-the Gardai were.An accurate precis is that the Southern police force (at the cost of signicant casualties) defended an NI unionist demonstration against an attempted assault by NI republican intruders (as per Jeffrey Donaldson’s own admission)
-Southern Observer
..but a few seconds mention on the C4 news, despite the interest here. I think the England rugby game got more coverage, as it usually does. Oh, wait they lost, dear dear.
I suspect this whole (non) event means damn all to those outside Slugger and its near-rival JOBLOG.
C4 mentioned several senior Unionist politicians, anyone know who other than Jeffrey were intending to participate?
Conor 7 (or whatever your nom de guerre is).
I was actually giving credit to Jeffrey here.
Southern Observer
Ultonian Scottis.
Sorry, it was me (TAFKABO) who made the post.I misread your comments.
Let’s hope that any of these neanderthals who appear before the courts get drop-kicked straight into the ‘joy for a few years hard time. As a republican I never cease to be amazed by the bone-headed antics of the ‘dissidents’. Anyone who comes out second-best from a tactical tussle with Willie Frazer needs urgent medical/psychiatric help. McDowell should now proscribe Republican Sinn Feinn and if Ruairi O’ Bradaigh et al justify today’s antics in any way shape or form they should be interned forthwith. Utter fucking scum!