Can the UUP attract Catholics?
The online version of last week’s Hearts and Minds didn’t come online till earlier in the week. Check out their trackback over the last ten years before tonight’s programme takes over. Tonight: Can the Ulster Unionist party rebrand itself enough to attract Catholics? Let us know what you think! Is it a distraction? What would it take? Or, is simply the case that people don’t/will not change ‘teams’? Or is it Unionism’s canny option for keeping a United Ireland at bay?
Tags: Unionism
“…Can the Ulster Unionist party rebrand itself enough to attract Catholics…”
not if it thinks that rebrand means a new logo
‘Or is it Unionism’s canny option for keeping a United Ireland at bay?’
Undoubtedly – but still welcome.
How would it attract catholics anyway without alienating Prod voters?
Maybe if they completly distanced themselves from the Orange Order and expelled all members who were Orangemen.
I’d vote for them then
If the UUP wants to be taken seriously on this, perhaps it should consider supporting reform of the Act of Settlement?
I’m sure it could attract some catholics, your religion doesn’t decide your politics. But could it attract those who don’t have or want a British identity? I don’t think so, and I don’t think they want those sort of people.
Good idea Tom. The UUP probably need to do things like that just to show its heart is in the right place.
Unionism is inherently weaker if it is based solely on the notion of ethnic religious identity. The UUP has far more prospect than the DUP of ever being able to define the ‘idea’ of unionism rather than simply be a drum thumper for an exclusively ethnic notion of unionism. This is why its separate survival is so crucially important. There is no reason why Catholicism is inconsistent with the unionist ideology. The problem is that a great many people in the UUP cannot effectively distinguish between the ideology and the cultural and ethnic symbols that provide them community orientation and solace. In this way they hold rigidly, even obsessively, to totems that alienate potential supporters from the catholic community and misunderstand those cultural expressions are not unionist ideology. There is no reason why a catholic and more importantly a culturally Irish catholic cannot be a political supporter of the continuation of the union and the underlying ideological content of that. That does not mean an embrace of all things culturally British but it simply means them offering political support to a party that protects that connection in a manner designed to be inclusive and respectful of the different cultural traditions.
This is a pretty big challenge and represents a loss for the UUP as well. A lot of unionists are threatened by any adjustment of the notion of unionism. The notion of Britishness is shifting as the nation changes and cultural concepts adjust to take account of new demographic realties. Northern Ireland is insulated from most of them with its demographic cleavages being so narrow but it is still part of the larger organism and the adaptation is having an impact. For the UUP to truly become a party that deserves and will receive catholic votes it has to learn to respect the catholic community and to respect the cultural Irish identity that is part of that community. The point is that unionism is an Irish historical tradition and is capable of embracing the wider Irish diaspora as well as its British brothers. Once the UUP can figure that out and reflect it in its internal culture and behaviour, once that becomes part of the organizational DNA of the UUP then it may well attract those catholic votes it is seeking. If however it indulges in cheap stunts, or rebrands, or look for a few castle Catholics to parade then it will not be successful. I have no doubt peoples hearts are in the right place but the extent of the real work to be done is being avoided in exchange for easy and cheap technical solutions to a deeper party challenge.
The interests of the broad nationalist people of the north are inextricably bound up in the interests of the SDLP, so I don’t see why they would start to vote for the UUP.
I think that even Catholics disinterested in a United Ireland are uncomfortable with Unionist symbols like the Union Flag and definitely do not want to have to sing GSTQ. It will be extremely hard and probably impossible.
Unfortunately, the UUP does not even appear to be able to attract Unionists!!!!!
I would recommend those nationalists who might be not for a united Ireland in and of itself to nonetheless vote for the SDLP. As I say the interests of broad nationalist community are inextricably bound up with the SDLP
David, question:
The interests of the broad nationalist people of the north are inextricably bound up in the interests of the SDLP, so I don’t see why they would start to vote for Sinn Féin.
Yet they have. Can you explain?
USA
I beleive it is because they have forgotten that the SDLP represent the interests of the broad nationalist community. I believe that nationalists will come to see that the SDLP are the best party and their votes will return to the SDLP.
Ultonian, when I say the broad nationalist community remember that SF are not elected by the broad nationalist community. Its only the SDLP whose interests are inextricably bound up with those of the broad nationalist community.
David what do you define as a nationalist?
Brian, anyone who is for or not very opposed to the idea of a united Ireland at a cultural level.
a cultural level.
Could you elaborate?
Yes, I can. A broad nationalist would culturally see his (or her) cultural homeland being defined as being at an island level, and therefore at a cultural would either not be against, or not strongly against, a united Ireland.
Unionism in general needs to broaden its appeal (we do have growing minority ethnic communities and inward migration from GB to consider as well) but this all smacks of the usual ad-hoc approach of the UUP.
“We need to expand our vote as we have took a hammering.”
“Let’s try to attract Catholic votes” (talking in sectarian terms being a good start to a new non-sectarian unionism – Ed)
“Great let’s tell everyone we want to attract catholic votes”
“Should we do some research into voting patterns, intentions or attitudes to see what potential pools of support are out there for the UUP”
“Not at all wishful thinking has always worked well. All we have to be is nice to them and they will vote for us” (Intelligent voters always react well to patronising approaches – Ed).
“Why would they support the Union?”
“There are better off with Northern Ireland in the Union so we’ll try and engage them about the economy?” (Never mind this has been true for decades and had no significant impact in sectarian voter paterns – Ed)
Poor dialogue aside. A voter moving from a nationalist to a Unionist party is a significant leap in voting behaviour and a very big ask. To achieve such changes in voting patterns is quite possibly generational. However, a more achieveable aim in the short and medium term would be to sufficiently demotivate them that they do not vote for a nationalist party.
Also a person considering switching is a ‘floating voter’, most election research shows a floating voter is attracted by value issues not hard issues ie in America attracted by family values not tax cuts. The UUP choice of the economy is a hard issue so may not be the wisest choice.
“Also a person considering switching is a ‘floating voter’, most election research shows a floating voter is attracted by value issues not hard issues ie in America attracted by family values not tax cuts. The UUP choice of the economy is a hard issue so may not be the wisest choice.”
I don’t think you can really compare the NI electorate to any other Western electorate. Nowhere else in the West do ppl vote on the basis of religion. I think another problem besides what I have mentioned is that people in NI of both religions are voting not merely on the constitutional question but also on religious lines. They want “one of our own kind” representing them. I don’t think that barrier is going to start weakening until people see politicians in a powersharing context implementing policies that benefit their lives so they can say “Yes voting for them benefits me on the ground”.
Also it should be clear from my definition that a Catholic in the North would almost always be a broad nationalist so would tend to find his (or her) interests inextricably bound up in the SDLP.
Unionism needs to get over the fantasy that there are loads of Catholics in NI who feel British. There aren’t. Loads who are quite comfortable with the status quo and not about to man the barricades, sure. But actively British? 1%, maybe 2% at the outside.
For the rest, things aren’t likely to change any time soon and even if they were, what’s to fear in the South these days?
I might think of voting unionist if they were going to take their seats in the Dail.
Just when the UUP whale looked beached, a flick of its tail and its off around the bay again.
An amazing creature.
The DUP has a better pitch for Catholic votes than the UUP. As David points out moderate nationalists have the SDLP.
But actual believing Catholics who are for example pro-life do remark that the DUP best represents them on many issues.
If you look at America the pro-life movement has seen Catholics and evangelicals working closely together. George Bush in looking for acceptable nominees for the Supreme Court ended up picking two Catholics much to delight of his evangelical base. Anti-Catholicism is not an issue.
Believers on both sides in the north are aware of developments in the US so there is at least a basis for a DUP pitch if they are interested.
David
You seem to be fairly confused about this issue, the UUP are not trying to attract nationalists – thats a stupid idea if ever I heard one, they are a unionist party so why the hell would someone who aspires to a united ireland join a unionist party?
The UUP want to appeal to pro-union catholics, surveys and polls have shown that not all catholics are nationalists, thats a rather niave assumption. Rather there are a portion of catholics who feel more comfortable in the union, those are who the UUP are appealing to. As David Christopher, one of a number of young catholics in the UUP, pointed out in the programme, increasingly there are catholics voting for unionists and protestants voting for nationalists, especially amongst younger people.
“As David Christopher, one of a number of young catholics in the UUP, pointed out in the programme, increasingly there are catholics voting for unionists and protestants voting for nationalists, especially amongst younger people.”
Any clear evidence for this or is it a David Christopher anecdote?
“As David Christopher, one of a number of young catholics in the UUP,”
..would that number by any chance be one?
Anyone who saw limp as lettuce Johnny -”Ooooh Dave Cameron you’re too tough for me”-Andrews last night knows the problem is that the UUP has no talent to attract anyone.These are the musings of a party in denial, which has lost it’s heart, and is grieving because it will never again be the natural party of (pretend) government-the real soul of the UUP being to BE the establishment.
Implicit in this thread is the acceptance that the UUP has lost the Unionist core vote for ever, as attacks on the DUP become increasingly half hearted and ritualistic. Never mind the Roman catholic Unionist voter, why would anyone vote for a party led by wusses like Johnny Andrews? They are incapable of delivery, and the electorate will continue to punish them ( before -perhaps- turning on the DUP?)
Hangonaminute I would say that all Catholics are broad nationalists, even those that are not against the union would probably not be very opposed to a united Ireland at a cultural level. Therefore their interests are inextricably bound up in the interests of the SDLP.
There are a substantial minority of catholics who have recently joined the comfortable middle classes and are now integral to the state. These are not idelogical nationalists – far from it. We all probably suffer from the intensity of this online identity debate which masks the fact that a substantial number of catholics and protestants are reasoanably satisfied with their constitutional place and far more concerned about schools and hospitals etc. Added to that as has been pointed out is an ethinicly neutral growing population of migrants from the EU.
This represents a legitimate and potentially lucrative source of votes for the UUP. But it would take some radical steps and a long term strategy to deliver real results. Amongst those:
1. A formal apology to the Northern nationalist community for the discrimination they suffered and an acknowlddgement that this played a key role in the Troubles.
2. The severance of the link between the Orange Order and the UUP.
3. A reframing of Unionism as an inclusive and secular set of ideas and values in the modern world. Ok, bit of a task I know.
4. All Unionist politicians to state that they have had three in a bed sex with aa man in a Linfield strip. (OK just joking but think of the publicity!)
‘Hangonaminute I would say that all Catholics are broad nationalists’
That’s a terrible analysis. Not one single catholic is a dyed in the wool, GSTQ singing unionist that wants nothing to do with the people in the 26 counties? *rolls eyes*
’1. A formal apology to the Northern nationalist community for the discrimination they suffered and an acknowlddgement that this played a key role in the Troubles.’
I don’t think this would be an issue, especially for the middle class people you mention, and would be political suicide for any unionist party. Thems the facts.
‘. The severance of the link between the Orange Order and the UUP.’
No longer exists, and I don’t think it wise to stop members of the UUP to being members of the OO.
‘. A reframing of Unionism as an inclusive and secular set of ideas and values in the modern world. Ok, bit of a task I know.’
Agreed – this should be the case anyway, regardless of trying to win over Catholics.
However, aside from the particular roadmap I agree with you. The greatest threat to a UI is the waking up of unionism that they will need non Protestant voters.
“However, aside from the particular roadmap I agree with you. The greatest threat to a UI is the waking up of unionism that they will need non Protestant voters.”
But the interests of these voters is inextricably bound up in the SDLP so they are onto a loser.
“There are a substantial minority of catholics who have recently joined the comfortable middle classes and are now integral to the state. These are not idelogical nationalists – far from it. We all probably suffer from the intensity of this online identity debate which masks the fact that a substantial number of catholics and protestants are reasoanably satisfied with their constitutional place and far more concerned about schools and hospitals etc.”
In a referendum the SDLP will campaign in favour of a UI which because it is the nearest party to them will make sure these people are on board.
‘..and would be political suicide for any unionist party.’
Smigiff: I think there would be a tremendous symbolism in that act and that it is morally the right thing to do and if articulated through a strong and confident UUP leadership (where’s that then?) it would be risky but could work and gain the party huge and much needed international credibility as a reformed movement without surrendering its Unionist credentials. As a Unionist I would have absolutely no problem in reconciling this apology with my firmn belief that Northern Ireland has a British future.
Acceptance of a part in creating the problems we have suffered over the last 30 years does not undermine the argument for Unionism. It would be a cathartic moment – a bit like if Sinn Fein were ever to sincerely declare that squalid, gaubby campaign of terrorism that mutated out of the civil rights movement was a grotesque mistake. Now THERES political suicide!
We will always have supremacists orange and green who temporarily hijack the political agenda. let’s not give up on the folk in the middle.
Er – that came out a bit funny. I wasn’t advocating political suicide of Unionism as a symbolic act rather an apology to nationalists!! No freudian slip intended!
Apology
Would a UUP apology seem sincere now? A party takes a hammering. It announces it wants to attract new voters from a community it has a poor relationship with in the past. It then apologises for past misdeeds. Would it be viewed as sincere?
Unionism and Stormont’s legacy
On the legacy of Stormont, is the DUP not in a stronger position to break Unionism from it? The DUP had next to nothing to do with it barely founded before it was prorogued. In its final years Paisley called for it to go. Many of the DUP’s founder members had been arch critics of Stormont from the right on constitutional issues and left on social issues. Also a lot of the DUP’s base is Prod working class which has long since worked out Stormont didn’t deliver for them so it can tap into those resentments towards the old Stormont?
Nationalism living in the past?
Or would it be better to simply state this is 2006. The Stormont parliament ceased 33 years ago, why are nationalists stuck in the past on this?
Stormont the Blame hound
However the obsession with Stormont and discrimination is questionable the real issues of discrimination were at local government level not Stormont e.g. compare the fair allocations of the NI Housing Trust with the skewed allocations of local councils.
Civic Politics?
Do the sections of the two largest communities in NI that actually vote want civic politics here?
Do the voting trends of the last decade not indicate a shift from sectarian politics to a form of civic sectarianism?
Civic sectarianism meaning the public discourse is one of civic politics but a failure to deliver for your sectarian bloc means you get punished at the ballot box. The failure to deliver for its sectarian bloc was a key contributor for the UUP’s decline while Sinn Fein’s success at delivering for its sectarian bloc has seen it rewarded at the ballot box.
This would also explain why the centre parties have seen steep decline during this period as well.
‘But the interests of these voters is inextricably bound up in the SDLP so they are onto a loser.’
David, you can’t get your head around the idea that there is even one Catholic that holds the union very dear, and would be very opposed to the UI. I wish that were true, but it’s patently not.
Bogexile,
I’m a lot further removed from the feelings within NI than you are, so I’d be very wary of disagreeing with you on such an opinion. I’d still be surprised if it’s needed, but take your point that it’d be cathartic.
Smcgiff:
I’ll let you into a secret – I now live in South west England so you’re as up to speed as I am!!
‘I’ll let you into a secret – I now live in South west England so you’re as up to speed as I am!! ‘
Explains everything (well, the name at least!)
I think if the UUP are serious about this then there’s not much they really would have to do.
A very good point was made already that one does not need to feel in any way “British” to be pro union, this is what they need to address campaigns run along the lines of “Simply British” will alienate Catholics who see themselves as Pro Union and Irish, the two aren’t mutually exclusive, calling the UUP “Simply British” and draping themselves in the British Flag will alienate pro union Catholics.
In my opinion what they need to do is rebrand to some neutral colours and rhetoric and row in behind the Good Friday Agreement, which guaruntees NIs place within the UK so long as a majority agree to it, that is what your pro Union Catholic wants to hear, not Union = British, but Union = Union.
Although they may be in danger at this point of becoming the Alliance party…
Anyway I hope they fail, so I don’t know why I’m advising!
There is one major flaw in the UUP’s analysis.
The UUP is hoping to attract this 25% of Catholics which surveys show could live happily in the union.
The problem is that if this 25% was asked if it could happily live in a united Ireland should the situation arise, the overwhelming majority would probably say yes.
The most recent survey showed only 1% of Catholics would define themselves as “unionist”.
This 25% aren’t soft unionists as the UUP seems to think but they are soft on the constitutional question.
The only way the UUP can attract these people is if they too become soft on the constitutional question and concentrate fully on making Northern Ireland work.
In other words, the UUP has to completely forget the constitutional question (as this 25% has) and concentrate solely on delivering for its constituents within a UK framework.
It’s priority has to switch from trying to remain in the union to trying to make Northern Ireland work within the union.
Andrews said that the biggest threat to Northern Ireland’s place in the union isn’t SF and isn’t the IRA, it’s the Celtic Tiger.
So in a sense, they are right to concentrate on the economic issues but they don’t seem to have grasped that this can only come about with the downgrading of the constitutional one.
Duncan Shipley Dalton says there is no reason why Catholicism is inconsistent with the unionist ideology.
Equally, there is no reason why Protestantism is inconsistent with a unified Irish Republic.
It is much less inconsistent in 2006 than it was in 1996 and a world away from 1956.
What will be unionism’s raison d’etre in 2026 if the Irish Republic continues to prosper and Northern Ireland continues to stagnate?
Will the unionist slogan go from Protestant and Proud to Protestant and Poor?
Can the Ulster Unionist party rebrand itself enough to attract Catholics?
Its common knowledge that the UUP have fielded catholic candidates in the past (Patricia Campbell?? and Tipperary born Sir John Gorman). At one point, they even had Liam Neeson OBE in the limelight so I didn’t think they had so much trouble attracting the Castle Catholic variety in this day and age. Surely with the OO link repudiated there should be less of a chill factor emanating from the UUP, with regard to that particular subsection of catholics.
I’d reckon that the only reason why catholics aren’t joining the UUP en masse, is that it is a capital U Unionist party. Perhaps its the case that they find a better home in a small-u unionist party such as Alliance. Look at Seamus Close for instance – once upon a time, he stood in elections for the SDLP, now he’s a fully fledged councillor/MLA for a small-u unionist party so it is true that some people ‘will change teams’ in the course of their lifetime.
George,
Its not Protestantism that is inconsistent with a unified Irish republic, but specific components to Britishness.
As you are probably aware, Protestants have had some degree of political visiblity in the south. They are over-represented in the Oireachas and if Labour form the next coalition government, the Irish Republic will have its first woman Protestant member of an Irish cabinet in the next Dail. In that sense, it was never the case that Protestants were inconsistent with the republican order. Indeed, it was always possible to accomodate protestants, provided they did not hold themselves out to be guardians of the British tradition. And thats the crux of the matter.
While its an understood thing that a unified Irish republic will be able to guarantee rights and entitlements to northern Protestants, you cannot escape the fact that will will involve a quid pro quo. At the very least, Protestants would have to shred the more repugnant elements to Britishness – loyalty to the Crown and Protestant supremacy in particular.
Those parties who advocate a united Ireland are not honest enough. They’re well able to reveal about what republicanism has to offer Protestants, but they haven’t the backbone to reveal what northern Protestants would lose in the event of a united Ireland. Maybe its about time northern Protestants started hearing the truth about what aspects of Britishness they would have to repudiate in a united ireland.
i want to start a pro-united ireland central party. to prepare us prod norn’rs for the inevitable. if only to take the sting out of SFs thorny tail.
The UUP should be trying to get more broad nationalists to vote SDLP.
If the SDLP become the larger of the two nationalist parties then powersharing becomes less difficut for unionists.
If unionists vote for the UUP and the UUP adopt a less repellant image for broad nationalists then the SDLP will prosper again and the future will be better for broad nationalists, being one of powersharing with all parties in the executive, with the SDLP as Deputy First Minister.
“Hangonaminute I would say that all Catholics are broad nationalists”
How do you account for David Christopher then? I wouldn’t have the arrogance to think I could claim all protestants were unionists so how can you claim every single catholic is a nationalist?
Wake up son
“1. A formal apology to the Northern nationalist community for the discrimination they suffered and an acknowlddgement that this played a key role in the Troubles. ”
After nationalists apologise for the discrimination against protestants that went on in the nationalist dominated councils such as Newry
“2. The severance of the link between the Orange Order and the UUP.”
That no longer exists, it was severed last year.
“3. A reframing of Unionism as an inclusive and secular set of ideas and values in the modern world. Ok, bit of a task I know. ”
Have you seen the latest Ulster Unionist set of policies? Kindly do some homework, have a read of them, then come back and tell you what exactly you object to?
Perhaps you can’t see past your own little box
Nathan,
it was always possible to accomodate protestants, provided they did not hold themselves out to be guardians of the British tradition
Conor Cruise O’Brien is a unionist and he was Minister for Foreign Affairs… I don’t see any problem with Unionists in the Republic professing loyalty to the queen etc… it’s their business if they want to belittle themselves by virtue of their birth. What aspects of Britishness are you afraid would be illegal or banned? There’d be nothing to stop anyone continuing in a Unionist party agitating for a return to the Union etc, you could surely fly the Union flag out of your house, paint your kerbstones red white and blue, and wear your bowler hats, and all these other things which make you british… do you really believe anything you do would be illegal and banned in an all island Republic?
POpeBuckfast
Conor Cruise O’Brien became an ardent capital-U Unionist a long time after he held public office so I don’t see the point your making.
Anyhow, he’s not culturally British – unlike most of his compatriots, he has a fluent command of the Irish language. Moreover, he remains a nominal republican – I know this because he refrained from giving any endorsement to the Irish Presbyterian who stood on overtly unionist platform in the Dublin North constituency by-election, in 1998. His views were that he supports the existence of the Irish Republic as a republican entity. So in that sense he is not a monarchist who wants the Republic to shut up shop and make a swift return to Westminster. He merely wants the continuation of the union in relation to NI – a partitionist mentality which doesn’t necessarily equate as full-blown unionism.